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#91
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Despite your blatant anti American feelings several American companies are
capable of making precision firearmes and do. First of all I don't have blatant Anti-American feelings. What I object to is the unilateral dismissal of German technology in relation to the majority of the weapon systems used by the US Armed Forces from the late '40s to present. I also can't stand "USA-Number-One" types that cannot learn from history or from 9/11. Right now, the US (lone Superpower), is getting its ass kicked in Iraq by a bunch of armed thugs and Islamic zealots that can't stand the democratization of Iraq. I support our troops and decision to invade Iraq but I don't like the current Administrative policies that tie our troops hands behind their backs in a Vietnam-like situation that makes the war on terrorism all the more unpopular at home. You are older than me so you should recognize that fact. And you cannot ever call me un-American because I am a solid conservative Republican that votes along party lines. President Bush is MY President that I voted for and for whom I will vote AGAIN no matter what happens. I also support the Israelis and have for over a decade financially... so much for your fascist Nazi label of me. I just like war history, military arms of all sorts, and especially like Reich technology. This may shock the hell out of you but a lot of AMERICANS like German technology and war history. All my friends do and even my buddy in the SFs admits he wishes he had some of the current German arms where he is at (somewhere in the Mideast). I just make "jabs" at you guys because you give me a hard time. Do you really think I care that much about a Luftwaffe Drilling as a survival gun? I don't (although the Drillings by themselves are excellent weapons). Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired (can't wait for the Obituary that reads: Dan, U.S. Air Force, expired)! I guess if you can't wait you will have to find something else to occupy your time. Someday I will die as will you. Perhaps you will out live me and perhaps you won't. Relax Dan, it was only a joke... that's why I put the exclamation mark at the end and not a period. It was a poke at your SIG. Gosh... Rob Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#92
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#94
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#95
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#96
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"John Keeney" wrote in message ...
"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message om... "Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ... Again, for survival after escaping from an unflyable aircraft? The idea is "not to die of exposure, hunger or angry wildlife", not "stand off all of 3 Shock Army singlehandedly". Every ounce of grenades, heavy-calibre ammunition, et cetera you carry is an ounce less of food, water, radio beacon, spare batteries, flares, dye markers and other items that might actually improve your chances of living until rescue. Respectfully, doesn't that depend on what you are most likely to need to do in order to survive? WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind enemy lines in time of war. A lone downed airman -or lone downed crew for that matter- isn't in a position to get into fire fights: there's just no way they can have brought enough fire power with them. Not getting captured means stealth and recovery. Survival means not ****ing off the more heavily armed people around you, water, shelter in bad weather and food. In that order. A good knife can be used stealthily in making shelter, some places getting water and food. Perhaps a gun with subsonic ammo would be sufficiently comforting and useful for small game in a long term situation to be worth while. Which has some clear implications IRT guns. It would seem that shooting game for food would be a bad idea as gunshots can attract unwanted attention. OTOH, shooting a lone person who has spotted you and is running to report your presence to the military is probably worth the risk. I would think that gathering plants and insects for food would be highly prefereable to hunting game with a firearm. The probability of success is higher and for the most part you can eat as you gather, no need to gut, skin, dress or cook a grub or cattail root. In wartime, if you include a gun in the survival kit it seems it ought to be the sort useful for shooting humans because it would be inadvisable to shoot anything else. When I was in High School we had a visit from a US Army Helicopter pilot who had been shot down twice in Vietnam. He said that both times when he was rescued he was running pretty hard to keep ahead of the VC. Obviously he wasn't going to take time to hunt for food, but a good rifle might have helped to keep the VC at a distance. In the wilderness, defending oneself against wild animals is pretty much a non-issue unless you go out of your way to harrass a moose or something. OTOH, in peacetime you will most likely be staying near the crash site waiting for rescue so hunting is more practical. -- FF |
#97
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#98
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Someone ought to tell the military survival school instructors, then,
because they are teaching people the wrong stuff. How so? Don't they teach both? One teachs escape and evasion the other teaches living off the land long enough to get picked up, ie first aid, finding making shelter, finding food and water, comunicating and signalling, and orienteering. There isn't much emphasis on being the great white meat hunter, mostly just acknowledgement that you can do things like snare or trap. The SERE training is how to keep from being caught and if caught, how to conduct yourself and survive. I don't remember any mention of the use of firearms in the four I went through, land, water, jungle, and arctic. I also was an avid backpacker and put survival on my trips in the Sierra, Bitterroots, and Wind River in somewhat of a different category relative to techniques and objectives.. Steve |
#99
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In article ,
"Gord Beaman" ) wrote: WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind enemy lines in time of war. Someone ought to tell the military survival school instructors, then, because they are teaching people the wrong stuff. How so? Don't they teach both? I'm sure that they must...I've had numerous military 'survival school' courses, Arctic, Winter-bush, Summer, Summer-bush, Sea-survival. None of them even mentioned the Enemy (other than panic is your enemy) In the USN all aircrew have to go through SERE. I'm sure the USAF probably has something similar. At least when I was in, the mandatory survival training (beyond extensive water survival training) was about week in the Eglin AFB wilderness (no adversaries), a few days in the desert (north of Calexico), and about a week in the semi-forested Warner Springs (Calif) area training in survival in combat situations (the last few days with "enemies." There were also jungle survival (in the PI) and cold weather training (in Washington), but those weren't mandatory. What was mandatory is that all aircrews go through SERE; train to survive while evading as well as spend time as a "prisoner." --Mike |
#100
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USAFland survival school consisted of 1 - 2 weeks in evasion, resistance, and
escape training, and a week total on wilderness survival techniques. The week was spent in class and on a four day camp/trek experience The trek included evading the "enemy" and spending time with . If you got captured, you supposedly went back the the beginning of the trek and started over. The trek was rigorous enough that people died from time to time. The "campout" was mostly shelter building, familiarization with edible vegetation, and butchering and cooking a white domestic bunny in the event you were able to trap or snare some meat. The emphasis was on non firearm use because even if you had firearms, you'r eventually run out of ammo. The jungle and arctic schools also spent some time on edible veggies and shelter. In my mind, the majority of time was focused on not getting caught or lost, and conduct it you were caught, not living off the land. Steve WILDERNESS survival in peacetime is different from survival behind enemy lines in time of war. Someone ought to tell the military survival school instructors, then, because they are teaching people the wrong stuff. How so? Don't they teach both? I'm sure that they must...I've had numerous military 'survival school' courses, Arctic, Winter-bush, Summer, Summer-bush, Sea-survival. None of them even mentioned the Enemy (other than panic is your enemy) -- -Gord. |
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