What about Brand "X"?

"Stu Gotts" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:04:44 -0500, Mike Beede wrote:

In article , Stu Gotts
wrote:

Compare the climb and useful weight to a sicilian aircraft, say a
Bonanza with the same HP.

Maybe I'm slow today, but I can't imagine what you meant to
write instead of "sicilian."

Thanks,

Mike Beede

I totally screwed up on the whole thread, maybe the combination of
heroin, booze and wild women. That should have been similar, but
maybe the spell checker changed whatever I pecked out to Sicilian. Or
maybe it's secret code for the Cosa Nostra. Anyway, I need to back
out of the thread, I totally have not expressed what I meant to say.


Oh that's funny. I'm sure there were dozens of us scratching our heads over
that one!

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"Tom S." wrote in message ...

Different strokes for different folks, but I wouldn't think about
buying a relatively expensive, complex, everyday flyer that wasn't
either in current production or very well-supported concerning parts.

And that's why I asked to ascertain anyone's experience or objective
knowledge of theri maintenance. As it is, I am pretty much eleiminating them
from my perspective list.

Tom,

Perhaps you have received additional information you're not sharing
here, but personally I wouldn't eliminate a plane I liked because some
folks on the net raised concerns about parts.

The real issue is: what do A&Ps with expertise and owners in the
type club say about parts? If those folks say there are problems,
there are problems. But I've heard the same "ding" re Grummans,
and typically it was either pilots speaking on general principles
(small production run, out of production at the time), or mechanics
who lacked experience w/ Grummans and didn't know who to call.

Don't get me wrong, I have zippo experience with Commanders. I
just wouldn't eliminate a plane you have time in and like unless
I'd talked to the type club, or to a mechanic acknowledged as
knowledgeable in the type (he maintains more than 1 or 2).

Regards,
Sydney

"Snowbird" wrote in message
om...
"Tom S." wrote in message
...

Different strokes for different folks, but I wouldn't think about
buying a relatively expensive, complex, everyday flyer that wasn't
either in current production or very well-supported concerning parts.

And that's why I asked to ascertain anyone's experience or objective
knowledge of their maintenance. As it is, I am pretty much eliminating
them
from my perspective list.

Tom,

Perhaps you have received additional information you're not sharing
here, but personally I wouldn't eliminate a plane I liked because some
folks on the net raised concerns about parts.

No, I have not other infor, but I did talk to my FBO's A&P, but he doesn't
work on them enough to form an opinion.

The real issue is: what do A&Ps with expertise and owners in the
type club say about parts? If those folks say there are problems,
there are problems. But I've heard the same "ding" re Grummans,
and typically it was either pilots speaking on general principles
(small production run, out of production at the time), or mechanics
who lacked experience w/ Grummans and didn't know who to call.

Good point. My partner has had 114B for the past 8 months, but has not had a
single problem with it, so that doens't help on the parts "issue".

Don't get me wrong, I have zippo experience with Commanders. I
just wouldn't eliminate a plane you have time in and like unless
I'd talked to the type club, or to a mechanic acknowledged as
knowledgeable in the type (he maintains more than 1 or 2).

The problem I foresee (as someone pointed out) is that with them in Chapter
11, even a previously good parts supply may suddenly vanish.

I do like the plane, and find it supurbly comfortable for my build (big in
the shoulders). No, it's not the fastest, but if I merely wanted _fast_, I'd
go with a Mooney. Unfortunately, though I love the feel and handling of a
Mooney, it's low/narrow cabin (hence, it's speed) just gives me a cramp. :~)

Could anyone point out where the Commanders Club :~) is to be found?


Regards,
Sydney

"Tom S." wrote in message ...



Could anyone point out where the Commanders Club :~) is to be found?



Try : www.commander.org

Craig C.

(Snowbird) wrote in message . com...


The real issue is: what do A&Ps with expertise and owners in the
type club say about parts? If those folks say there are problems,
there are problems. But I've heard the same "ding" re Grummans,
and typically it was either pilots speaking on general principles
(small production run, out of production at the time), or mechanics
who lacked experience w/ Grummans and didn't know who to call.

The problem with parts avialbilty on a particular a/c should be looked
at from two different points of view when we ding it. By far, the
average pilot wants to be able to go out and get into the bird and go
any day of the week and at any time. When it breaks, he wants his
mechanic to walk over to the parts room and get the part or call the
supplier and have it fed-exed in and the a/c back in the air as soon
as possible. This type owner is going to consider the ding on parts a
major problem.

Now flip over to guys like me that build and restore airplanes for a
living. All our restoration work is on a/c that are over 50 years
old. We expect to have problems finding parts or plan on fabricating
our own. For us it doesn't matter too much if it takes us a week or a
couple of months to find parts. To us and the owners that we work
with, the ding means that parts availibility is not as easy as most
newer a/c and might require some effort and time to find and get them,
but there is a solution.

Then you filp to guys like me personally. I have a restoration project
where a pair of rudders are the only known spare parts in exsistance
for the airframe. Everthing else, I get to either rebuild the parts
that I have or fabricate new ones. That's part of the reason that this
restoration is taking many years to get done.

I look at it this way: If someone likes a particular a/c enough, we,
as mechanics and restorers, can find some way to safely keep it in the
air. It might not be the least expensive a/c to maintain or have the
fastest turn around when it needs attention, but we can keep it
flying.

Craig C.

"Stu Gotts" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 07:08:04 -0700, "Tom S." wrote:


"Stu Gotts" wrote in message
.. .
Commander never had a good customer service history and parts were
very hard to obtain. Hell, it was hard to get them on the phone! Now
that they're out, I would imagine that it's even more of a chore.

"Out"?

Aren't they bankrupt and the doors closed?

Chapter 11 -- reorganization

Otherwise...

Speeds
Maximum 164 kts.(304 kph)
Performance Cruise (75% Power)160 kts. (297 kph) (a 182RG does 148kts)
Economy Cruise (65% Power)155 kts. (287 kph)
Long Range Cruise (55% Power)149 kts. (276 kph)
Stall (Cruise Configuration) 60 kts. (111 kph)
Stall (Landing Configuration)54 kts. (100 kph)





Way
underpowered,

260 HP is "underpowered"?

HP isn't the factor. Look at the speeds those 260 ponies are taking
you.

Look at the 148kts that 235HP takes you in a 182RG.

I'd rather look at climb capability. Speed is a factor of their large and
comfortable cabin.

If you are looking for something roomy and well built have you considered a Navion?

Kevin

(Craig) wrote in message . com...
"Tom S." wrote in message ...


So, it looks like I'm back to square #1.

At least you aren't driving a 400 series Cessna. Just got an email
with a warning about an AD getting ready to come out on all 400 series
Cessnas with a projected parts cost of 14,000$, but with a 700 manhour
install time... Lots of 400 series birds are going to get grounded....

Craig C.