Bothersome Phillips Head Screws

The Phillips screw was invented by somebody who thought that it would make
the manufacturing process easier. It has been a dismal failure from day 1,
but manufacturers continue to use it.

One of the biggest problems with the screw is that you never seem to have a
screwdriver that fits it exactly, so you use the wrong size and tear up the
screw, the screwdriver, or both.

It's ashamed that Roberston screw heads didn't catch on. These are the
"square" socket heads screws, opposed to the more common "hex" socket head
screws.

A Canadian invention, that unfortunately, had patent problems in the U.S.
before the start of WW2. The dawning of WW2 required U.S. manufacturers to
use a newly patented "Philips" head to keep up with wartime production and
the popular screw never looked back.

The Robertson system is far superior, doesn't strip the screw head as easily
as the Phillips and one can easily start a Robertson using one hand on the
screwdriver.
"Larry Smith" wrote in message
...
Doing a little work on old Cessnas for fun these days and have to tell you
I
don't like Phillips head screws. The slightest corrosion and they stick
and freeze. Then your Snap-On screwdriver (make sure it fits) wallows
the
head out, as you grunt and cuss. Then you have to pull out the old die
grinder and disc a groove in the dam* thing and go pull out your common
screwdriver. Last night taking off a set of wheelpants where corrosion
thrives, I had screw after screw frozen up and had to pull the compressor
out on the ramp several times --- cause it had to go back to the shop for
a
recharge.

Time to go to Allen screws. Yes. The entire Phillips head screw
population is held in contempt. They ought to be banned.

Doing a little work on old Cessnas for fun these days and have to tell you I
don't like Phillips head screws. The slightest corrosion and they stick
and freeze. Then your Snap-On screwdriver (make sure it fits) wallows the
head out, as you grunt and cuss. Then you have to pull out the old die
grinder and disc a groove in the dam* thing and go pull out your common
screwdriver.

I have found that most stuck screws are as much the result of too much torque
on installation as corrosion, I mean a combination of both. If the initial
torque was not too high than removal is no problem even if there is some
corrosion.

If I am removing screws on a plane I haven't worked before I set the torque on
my battery screwdriver to a low setting so that it starts racheting before it
cams out of the screw head. If a screw is stuck then I progressively ramp up
the torque on the driver and often that will get a screw out. For the really
stubborn ones I get out my Craftsmen speed handle, I have the one with a really
wide handle that I sometimes will actually lean on with my chest. Anyway I
take the speed handle and try first to tighten the screw. If the screw is
stuck from corrosion than sometimes tightening will break it free and allow it
to be removed. If the screw is well and truly stuck I can judge when the bit
will cam out much better than with the power driver.

If the screw head is buggered up then very often a little valve grinding
compound will allow the bit to get a better bite. Snap On makes replaceable
bits that have serration on the removal faces that grip better than standard
bits.

If the screw won't come out either from being stuck or because the head is to
damaged then I will use a screw removal tool of some kind. I own several
types. I almost never use the die grinder disc technique and how to you use
that on a flush head screw anyway? Sometimes, especiall on smaller screws #8
and #6 the head break off even when you use all techniques and the only thing
left is to muckle on to the stem of the screw with vise grips and twist it out,
providing you get all the other screws out so that the cover is removed and the
body of the srcrew is accessible. Sometimes I will get on the underside of the
stuck screw and continue to tighten it until the headless screw comes out the
bottom, this is not possible if the screw is in a blind area of course.

In any event once I have gone through the procedures of stuck screw removal on
one annual of a new to me aircraft I rarely have any more problems from stuck
screws because I do not overtorque them on installation. I will also squirt a
light oil into the female fastener if I think it is necessary.

I suspect that whether you are dealing with torx, hex or square drive, phillips
or reed and prince, quad wing or tri wing, every type of fastener style has its
pros and cons.

John Dupre'

"Larry Smith" wrote in message ...

Couple of a ideas for Phillips...

1) Use a good phillips driver and put a bit of valve
grinding compound on it. Can sometimes walk out a really
stuck screw that way. Throw the screw away then.

2) Don't use Stainless. The strength is much less and they round
out more easily.

3) Use head with deepest possible cross.

4) If they don't look too hot when removed, don't put them
back. Buy cheap ones by the gross on Ebay.

Bill Hale

Doing a little work on old Cessnas for fun these days and have to tell you I
don't like Phillips head screws. The slightest corrosion and they stick
and freeze. Then your Snap-On screwdriver (make sure it fits) wallows the
head out, as you grunt and cuss. Then you have to pull out the old die
grinder and disc a groove in the dam* thing and go pull out your common
screwdriver. Last night taking off a set of wheelpants where corrosion
thrives, I had screw after screw frozen up and had to pull the compressor
out on the ramp several times --- cause it had to go back to the shop for a
recharge.

Time to go to Allen screws. Yes. The entire Phillips head screw
population is held in contempt. They ought to be banned.

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:23:56 -0500, "Larry Smith"
wrote:

Doing a little work on old Cessnas for fun these days and have to tell you I
don't like Phillips head screws. The slightest corrosion and they stick
and freeze. Then your Snap-On screwdriver (make sure it fits) wallows the
head out, as you grunt and cuss. Then you have to pull out the old die
grinder and disc a groove in the dam* thing and go pull out your common
screwdriver. Last night taking off a set of wheelpants where corrosion
thrives, I had screw after screw frozen up and had to pull the compressor
out on the ramp several times --- cause it had to go back to the shop for a
recharge.

Time to go to Allen screws. Yes. The entire Phillips head screw
population is held in contempt. They ought to be banned.


Not as bad as reed and prince screw heads they truly are the work of
the devil.
Drew

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:27:42 GMT, (Michael Alexander)
wrote:

Ever try to remove a broken screw extractor? Try using a Chinese impact
driver with an American Phillips bit. Also try soaking the screw with
Kroil.

Give them the Kroil, or WD-40 treatment a day before trying to remove
them. It works like magic.

With small engines that had frozen up where you couldn't even budge
the crank, we'd take the head off, give it a really good dose of WD-40
(or Kroil), set the head back in place and forget the thing for 24
hours. Go back the next day and you could turn the crank by hand.
Never had it fail although I'm sure there were such cases.

But, that was aluminum and I'd thin the penetrating oil would have the
same effect when trying to get bound up screws out. Have patience
and save a *lot* of work.

Nuther thing that might help is use the bit in a drill that has the
hammer drill function. Set the torque to low and put 'er in reverse
(after the kroil treatment) The low torque and hammer seems to also
work wonders for me.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:20:27 -0500, "Eugene Wendland"
wrote:

It's ashamed that Roberston screw heads didn't catch on. These are the
"square" socket heads screws, opposed to the more common "hex" socket head
screws.


I like the ones that look like a figure 8 better than the square. I
forget what they are called, but I've never had a driver slip out of
one. Course I never had to remove one full of paint either.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

A Canadian invention, that unfortunately, had patent problems in the U.S.
before the start of WW2. The dawning of WW2 required U.S. manufacturers to
use a newly patented "Philips" head to keep up with wartime production and
the popular screw never looked back.

The Robertson system is far superior, doesn't strip the screw head as easily
as the Phillips and one can easily start a Robertson using one hand on the
screwdriver.
"Larry Smith" wrote in message
...
Doing a little work on old Cessnas for fun these days and have to tell you
I
don't like Phillips head screws. The slightest corrosion and they stick
and freeze. Then your Snap-On screwdriver (make sure it fits) wallows
the
head out, as you grunt and cuss. Then you have to pull out the old die
grinder and disc a groove in the dam* thing and go pull out your common
screwdriver. Last night taking off a set of wheelpants where corrosion
thrives, I had screw after screw frozen up and had to pull the compressor
out on the ramp several times --- cause it had to go back to the shop for
a
recharge.

Time to go to Allen screws. Yes. The entire Phillips head screw
population is held in contempt. They ought to be banned.

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:20:27 -0500, "Eugene Wendland"
wrote:

It's ashamed that Roberston screw heads didn't catch on. These are the
"square" socket heads screws, opposed to the more common "hex" socket
head
screws.


I like the ones that look like a figure 8 better than the square. I
forget what they are called, but I've never had a driver slip out of
one. Course I never had to remove one full of paint either.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

A Canadian invention, that unfortunately, had patent problems in the U.S.
before the start of WW2. The dawning of WW2 required U.S. manufacturers
to
use a newly patented "Philips" head to keep up with wartime production
and
the popular screw never looked back.

The Robertson system is far superior, doesn't strip the screw head as
easily
as the Phillips and one can easily start a Robertson using one hand on
the
screwdriver.
"Larry Smith" wrote in message
...
Doing a little work on old Cessnas for fun these days and have to tell
you
I
don't like Phillips head screws. The slightest corrosion and they
stick
and freeze. Then your Snap-On screwdriver (make sure it fits) wallows
the
head out, as you grunt and cuss. Then you have to pull out the old
die
grinder and disc a groove in the dam* thing and go pull out your common
screwdriver. Last night taking off a set of wheelpants where
corrosion
thrives, I had screw after screw frozen up and had to pull the
compressor
out on the ramp several times --- cause it had to go back to the shop
for
a
recharge.

Time to go to Allen screws. Yes. The entire Phillips head screw
population is held in contempt. They ought to be banned.

Try dipping your phillips bit in a small amount of valve grinding compound,
the bit will bite into the screw. That screw will back right out every time.

Fred Stewart


"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:20:27 -0500, "Eugene Wendland"
wrote:

It's ashamed that Roberston screw heads didn't catch on. These are the
"square" socket heads screws, opposed to the more common "hex" socket
head
screws.


I like the ones that look like a figure 8 better than the square. I
forget what they are called, but I've never had a driver slip out of
one. Course I never had to remove one full of paint either.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

A Canadian invention, that unfortunately, had patent problems in the U.S.
before the start of WW2. The dawning of WW2 required U.S. manufacturers
to
use a newly patented "Philips" head to keep up with wartime production
and
the popular screw never looked back.

The Robertson system is far superior, doesn't strip the screw head as
easily
as the Phillips and one can easily start a Robertson using one hand on
the
screwdriver.
"Larry Smith" wrote in message
...
Doing a little work on old Cessnas for fun these days and have to tell
you
I
don't like Phillips head screws. The slightest corrosion and they
stick
and freeze. Then your Snap-On screwdriver (make sure it fits) wallows
the
head out, as you grunt and cuss. Then you have to pull out the old
die
grinder and disc a groove in the dam* thing and go pull out your common
screwdriver. Last night taking off a set of wheelpants where
corrosion
thrives, I had screw after screw frozen up and had to pull the
compressor
out on the ramp several times --- cause it had to go back to the shop
for
a
recharge.

Time to go to Allen screws. Yes. The entire Phillips head screw
population is held in contempt. They ought to be banned.

Gives me an entirely new respect for common slot-headed screws. I'm limited to
using them on my Wright machine (no Phillips in 1902.) I've found that with a
good screwdriver, they hold a lot more torque. However, they absolutely suck
when used with a cordless drill. Use the tool that matches the technology I
guess. BTW, try removing #6 zinc screws from seasoned white ash lumber
sometime. FUN!

Harry