TFR not right IMO

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message om...
"Malcolm Teas" wrote in message om...

2) An ADIZ that requires clearance and a transponder code.

It doesn't require clearance, but unfortunately some ATC folk think it does.

And, you never know which kind you're dealing with. Personally, with
the penalties involved, I want to hear something similar to, "cleared
into the ADIZ" and get that on tape. Maybe this is a student's
caution. But, I believe that the caution is appropriate in this case.

Michael wrote:

Bart wrote
I mean if there's 300,000 ish AOPA members out there, then that's an important
block of votes.

No it's not. It's a tiny, insignificant block of votes.

That's got to be one of the biggest PAC's next to AARP.

It's not even on the same order of magnitude as AARP. I believe AARP
is at least 100 times bigger than AOPA.

True, but AOPA sits astride a unique demographic: I'd guess that pilots gnerally
vote overwhelmingly Republican. To the extent that they might be willing to
withold their votes from this president (or - gasp! - even vote for someone else),
they could potentially move a lot more votes than a group whose voting record is
much more evenly divided across the political spectrum.

I agree that in raw numbers, the "pilot vote" doesn't look like it's very big. But
since the vast majority of pilots probably voted for Dubya last time, AOPA could
potentially have an impact that's much greater than the raw numbers suggest.

For example: You **** off the National Education Association (mostly Democratic
voters) and this president doesn't stand to lose much - not too many NEA members
voted for Bush last time. But **** off 400,000 AOPA members - who (I suspect) DID
vote for Bush in droves last time - and there might be a real price to pay in the
next election. At least that's what I like to think.

Those who were paying attention will recall that the last presidential election was
- ahem - CLOSE. I think the next one will be too. Every vote counts
(well...except in Florida, of course

David H
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA

I'm sure there are quite a few republicans in the 2.7 million members of the NEA (I
work with quite a few of them). I'm a member of AOPA and a member of NEA, hmmmm, who
would I have voted for? Don't judge a person's voting habits solely on the groups they
belong to.

Margy

David H wrote:

Michael wrote:

Bart wrote
I mean if there's 300,000 ish AOPA members out there, then that's an important
block of votes.

No it's not. It's a tiny, insignificant block of votes.

That's got to be one of the biggest PAC's next to AARP.

It's not even on the same order of magnitude as AARP. I believe AARP
is at least 100 times bigger than AOPA.

True, but AOPA sits astride a unique demographic: I'd guess that pilots gnerally
vote overwhelmingly Republican. To the extent that they might be willing to
withold their votes from this president (or - gasp! - even vote for someone else),
they could potentially move a lot more votes than a group whose voting record is
much more evenly divided across the political spectrum.

I agree that in raw numbers, the "pilot vote" doesn't look like it's very big. But
since the vast majority of pilots probably voted for Dubya last time, AOPA could
potentially have an impact that's much greater than the raw numbers suggest.

For example: You **** off the National Education Association (mostly Democratic
voters) and this president doesn't stand to lose much - not too many NEA members
voted for Bush last time. But **** off 400,000 AOPA members - who (I suspect) DID
vote for Bush in droves last time - and there might be a real price to pay in the
next election. At least that's what I like to think.

Those who were paying attention will recall that the last presidential election was
- ahem - CLOSE. I think the next one will be too. Every vote counts
(well...except in Florida, of course

David H
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
Bart wrote
I mean if there's 300,000 ish AOPA members out there, then that's an
important
block of votes.

No it's not. It's a tiny, insignificant block of votes.

That's got to be one of the biggest PAC's next to AARP.

It's not even on the same order of magnitude as AARP. I believe AARP
is at least 100 times bigger than AOPA.

AOPA = 300,000
AARP = 3.7 million (all dedicated to looting the public trough), or 10.2
times bigger.
NRA = 4.1 million (who knows what they're up to)

Tom
--
For my de-spammed address, send me an email.

Malcolm Teas wrote:

Consider "permanent TFR" a tongue-in-cheek phrase. I meant it that way.

I consider it one more example of the abuse of the public (and of truth)
being committed by the current administration. I've been noticing this for
some time, but I've finally started to log these (although I've no idea
why).

For example, calling the people in Iraq fighting our military "terrorists"
instead of "guerrillas", despite the fact that it is our *military* being
attacked. This was just yesterday, and was the final straw which pushed me
over into starting my collection.

But there've been all these analyses of the two tax cuts which showed them
primarily helping the wealthy combined with the administration's claims
that it is good for "all those who pay taxes". Of course, this doesn't
include the 8 million mostly low-income taxpayers cited in a study by the
Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center.

This came up in early June, and I think it's what started me thinking about
a collection.

- Andrew

Kevin, you are tha man!
Nice Job,
Bart

Kevin McCue wrote:

Along the lines of this and a previous thread, I sent this to the White
house yesterday w/copies to my congressional critters.

President Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Washington D.C.

July1, 2003

Dear President Bush,

Please do not visit or send Vice President Cheney to the Tucson area during
your fund raising and campaigning junkets. The onerous flight restrictions
now (30 nm radius) imposed by your travels are in excess of 12,000 cubic
miles of airspace closed to general aviation. Not only does this deprive
law-abiding U.S. citizens of their right to travel but it could push some
struggling businesses over the edge.
Since 9/11, innuendo, false alarms and pointless flight restrictions have
decimated the general aviation industry. This industry employs more people
than the airlines but has not received any economic relief. On the contrary,
general aviation continues to be selected for additional economic damage
through an executive policy of unreasonable restrictions, impositions, and
lack of due process. The "DC 3" airports are an excellent example.
You have a right to campaign and raise funds but you must be aware that
these activities are not within the duties of you office. While conducting
these activities you are holding your rights above those of millions of
fellow citizens. I hope you will take an opportunity to review your security
arrangements soon. Until you can reduce the imposition (return to the 10 nm
radius) or realistically justify the current restrictions, please give your
fellow citizens a break and stay home.

Kevin W. McCue
Business owner and pilot

--
Kevin McCue
KRYN
'47 Luscombe 8E
Rans S-17 (for sale)

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On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:55:23 -0700, "Kevin McCue" wrote:

Along the lines of this and a previous thread, I sent this to the White
house yesterday w/copies to my congressional critters.


President Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Washington D.C.

July1, 2003

Dear President Bush,
-snip-
Kevin W. McCue
Business owner and pilot

Right on Kevin!
TM

--
Toadmonkey: "Now now. Brain popping and world crashing may be hazardous to ones perception of reality.
Very dangerous business that can lead to madness or something worse for some, truth."


Please remove all bits of spam from addy before replying....


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Bart wrote:

I mean if there's 300,000 ish AOPA members out there, then that's an important
block of votes. That's got to be one of the biggest PAC's next to AARP.

AOPA is barely big enough to get on a Congresscritter's radar. NRA has over
ten times as many members, for example.

George Patterson
The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
James Branch Cavel

"Tom S." wrote:

NRA = 4.1 million (who knows what they're up to)

Right now, we are primarily concerned with trying to keep the "assault
weapons" ban from being renewed by Congress and criticizing the president
for promising to sign the bill if it passes. Pilots aren't the only people
feeling betrayed by Bush.

George Patterson
The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
James Branch Cavel

No judgement intended Margy, just looking at things in aggregate. While there surely are
Republicans in the NEA and Democrats in the AOPA, I think they probably represent a
minority of those organizations. If the Democratic candidate alienated the NEA, they
would have something to worry about, since the NEA typically is counted on by the
Democrats to be part of their solid base. Same for AOPA and the Republicans.

Margy Natalie wrote:

I'm sure there are quite a few republicans in the 2.7 million members of the NEA (I
work with quite a few of them). I'm a member of AOPA and a member of NEA, hmmmm, who
would I have voted for? Don't judge a person's voting habits solely on the groups they
belong to.

Margy

David H wrote:

Michael wrote:

Bart wrote
I mean if there's 300,000 ish AOPA members out there, then that's an important
block of votes.

No it's not. It's a tiny, insignificant block of votes.

That's got to be one of the biggest PAC's next to AARP.

It's not even on the same order of magnitude as AARP. I believe AARP
is at least 100 times bigger than AOPA.

True, but AOPA sits astride a unique demographic: I'd guess that pilots gnerally
vote overwhelmingly Republican. To the extent that they might be willing to
withold their votes from this president (or - gasp! - even vote for someone else),
they could potentially move a lot more votes than a group whose voting record is
much more evenly divided across the political spectrum.

I agree that in raw numbers, the "pilot vote" doesn't look like it's very big. But
since the vast majority of pilots probably voted for Dubya last time, AOPA could
potentially have an impact that's much greater than the raw numbers suggest.

For example: You **** off the National Education Association (mostly Democratic
voters) and this president doesn't stand to lose much - not too many NEA members
voted for Bush last time. But **** off 400,000 AOPA members - who (I suspect) DID
vote for Bush in droves last time - and there might be a real price to pay in the
next election. At least that's what I like to think.

Those who were paying attention will recall that the last presidential election was
- ahem - CLOSE. I think the next one will be too. Every vote counts
(well...except in Florida, of course

David H
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA