HUD view of a near-miss

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:55:37 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 03:08:07 -0500, Roger wrote:

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"

wrote in message
. net...
Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
Scott Wilson
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY


That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.

Back in the '80s, the Navy aviation safety magazine APPROACH had an article
about a Tempo Pinto trainer on final that struck a Cessna 150. The nosegear of
the jet basically ran over the wing root of the 150. Both planes landed safely.
the Cessna had a huge dent in the wing, the Pinto had a scuff on the nosewheel
tire. In other words, this was an actual collision between two metal airplanes
without aluminum scraps flying....

Now that *is*close*! :-)) it also fits the proper definition of a
Near Miss in that he *nearly* missed the other plane. :-))

Ron Wanttaja
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:55:37 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 03:08:07 -0500, Roger wrote:

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"

wrote in message
. net...
Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
Scott Wilson
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY


That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.

Back in the '80s, the Navy aviation safety magazine APPROACH had an article
about a Tempo Pinto trainer on final that struck a Cessna 150. The nosegear of
the jet basically ran over the wing root of the 150. Both planes landed safely.
the Cessna had a huge dent in the wing, the Pinto had a scuff on the nosewheel
tire. In other words, this was an actual collision between two metal airplanes
without aluminum scraps flying....

Likewise back in the 60's there was a "Flying Farmers" fly-in at
Midland's Barstow airport (3BS). The airport was basically covered
with airplanes.

I witnessed two planes, the classic landing one on top of the other. I
no longer remember the top one but the bottom was a Piper Cub. The
top plane's mains rolled right over the Cub's wings almost from
trailing edge to leading edge forcing the Cub down. Of course at this
time the pilot on top realized something was wrong and pulled up. The
Cub nosed down and rolled 90 degrees, but recovered almost
immediately. His right wing tip was only inches off the ground with
people scattering to get out of the way.

No injuries and no damage except to maybe a few pair of shorts.
Of course this doesn't count as both were tube and fabric rather than
metal. :-))

BTW the Beech factory had a Debonair there as a demonstration plane. I
took one look and said, "I'm going to have one of those some day!".
Little did I know it'd be that same airplane about 37 years later.


Ron Wanttaja
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"
theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote:


wrote in message
et...

Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
Scott Wilson
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY


That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.


It can get closer.
Many years back as a student I was landing a Piper Colt on 36. A
Comanche was flying the express way East to West. The end of 18/36 is
about as close to the road as it can get. That would put me at 300
feet or less at that point. There is an over pass about a city block
to my left (West).
The Comanche not only went under us and had to pull up a bit for the
over pass, he put the top of his vertical stab less than a foot below
us. I had this flash and the impression of looking at rivets.
He was past us before either the instructor or I jumped and we have
fast reaction times. The speeds may have been way less, but the mess
would have been just about as bad.

How did you measure the distance with such accuracy?

Matt

"Roger" wrote in message
...
Likewise back in the 60's there was a "Flying Farmers" fly-in at
Midland's Barstow airport (3BS). The airport was basically covered
with airplanes.

I witnessed two planes, the classic landing one on top of the other. I
no longer remember the top one but the bottom was a Piper Cub. The
top plane's mains rolled right over the Cub's wings almost from
trailing edge to leading edge forcing the Cub down. Of course at this
time the pilot on top realized something was wrong and pulled up. The
Cub nosed down and rolled 90 degrees, but recovered almost
immediately. His right wing tip was only inches off the ground with
people scattering to get out of the way.

No injuries and no damage except to maybe a few pair of shorts.

The other definition of an "accident".

Of course this doesn't count as both were tube and fabric rather than
metal. :-))

BTW the Beech factory had a Debonair there as a demonstration plane. I
took one look and said, "I'm going to have one of those some day!".
Little did I know it'd be that same airplane about 37 years later.

"It's deja vu all over again" - Yogi Berra

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:11:34 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:

Roger wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"
theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote:


wrote in message
. net...

Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
Scott Wilson
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY


That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.


It can get closer.
Many years back as a student I was landing a Piper Colt on 36. A
Comanche was flying the express way East to West. The end of 18/36 is
about as close to the road as it can get. That would put me at 300
feet or less at that point. There is an over pass about a city block
to my left (West).
The Comanche not only went under us and had to pull up a bit for the
over pass, he put the top of his vertical stab less than a foot below
us. I had this flash and the impression of looking at rivets.
He was past us before either the instructor or I jumped and we have
fast reaction times. The speeds may have been way less, but the mess
would have been just about as bad.

How did you measure the distance with such accuracy?

When you happen to be looking at the spot out the window and the top
of the stab is about a foot below your butt most any one can guess
that close. I'd guess about 9 out of 10 could come within a few
inches of getting it right. It's like a flash photo. You just see the
image.

Even if I missed it by 100 % he'd only be two feet below , or scraping
paint..



Matt
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:11:34 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:


Roger wrote:

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:11:15 -0500, "Darkwing"
theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote:



wrote in message
.net...


Here's a very close call as recorded through the HUD camera of a T-38C.
Scott Wilson
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qLVtstYAZLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY


That was about as close as it gets without aluminum scraps flying.


It can get closer.
Many years back as a student I was landing a Piper Colt on 36. A
Comanche was flying the express way East to West. The end of 18/36 is
about as close to the road as it can get. That would put me at 300
feet or less at that point. There is an over pass about a city block
to my left (West).
The Comanche not only went under us and had to pull up a bit for the
over pass, he put the top of his vertical stab less than a foot below
us. I had this flash and the impression of looking at rivets.
He was past us before either the instructor or I jumped and we have
fast reaction times. The speeds may have been way less, but the mess
would have been just about as bad.

How did you measure the distance with such accuracy?


When you happen to be looking at the spot out the window and the top
of the stab is about a foot below your butt most any one can guess
that close. I'd guess about 9 out of 10 could come within a few
inches of getting it right. It's like a flash photo. You just see the
image.

Even if I missed it by 100 % he'd only be two feet below , or scraping
paint..

Most people couldn't estimate a foot if the airplanes were stationary
with one held above the other by a crane. You definitely can't estimate
distance with this precision at the closing speed of two aircraft,
unless they are flying in formation. :-)

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Whiting ]
Posted At: Saturday, December 16, 2006 10:03 AM
Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
Conversation: HUD view of a near-miss
Subject: HUD view of a near-miss

....

Even if I missed it by 100 % he'd only be two feet below , or
scraping
paint..

Most people couldn't estimate a foot if the airplanes were stationary
with one held above the other by a crane. You definitely can't
estimate
distance with this precision at the closing speed of two aircraft,
unless they are flying in formation. :-)

Matt

What difference does Roger's estimation of such a small distance make?
Pucker reflex is typically a binary response. ;-}

My experience is that when it is REALLY CLOSE! and happens REALLY FAST!,
there is no time for Pucker Factor to occur.

Jim Carter wrote:

What difference does Roger's estimation of such a small distance make?
Pucker reflex is typically a binary response. ;-}

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 13:54:57 -0500, john smith wrote:

My experience is that when it is REALLY CLOSE! and happens REALLY FAST!,
there is no time for Pucker Factor to occur.

Ur right. It was gone before either of us jumped by reflex. It missed
us, it was already gone, there was nothing left to be scared about.
We kept on practicing.


Jim Carter wrote:

What difference does Roger's estimation of such a small distance make?
Pucker reflex is typically a binary response. ;-}


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com