Free plans? Open source plans?

The first question is really simple: Are there any free plans for
homebuilt aircraft on the web? It should have an engine and be able to
carry a person, apart from that I'm just interested in seeing what's
out there, if any...

The second question/idea is a bit far out: Are there any "open source"
projects? It's obviously extremely difficult to exchange parts of
airplanes across the web, but people could develop something together
and everyone builds his or her own plane from the plans that come out
of this (and even those not building could bring in their expertise).
I know this is not computer software (even for a model airplane it
could work well), but has something like this been undertaken? Is it
feasible?

Oliver

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:48:28 -0800 (PST), Oliver Arend
wrote:

The first question is really simple: Are there any free plans for
homebuilt aircraft on the web? It should have an engine and be able to
carry a person, apart from that I'm just interested in seeing what's
out there, if any...

Texas Parasol, courtesy of our own Richard Lamb:

http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/...et.03.04.2006/

The second question/idea is a bit far out: Are there any "open source"
projects? It's obviously extremely difficult to exchange parts of
airplanes across the web, but people could develop something together
and everyone builds his or her own plane from the plans that come out
of this (and even those not building could bring in their expertise).
I know this is not computer software (even for a model airplane it
could work well), but has something like this been undertaken? Is it
feasible?

One of the RAH folks was part of a group of 13 people who built fourteen
examples of a given plans-built design at the same time. There were people who
were designated decision-makers, but everyone still tried to go their own way
and make changes, "improve" portions, and generally go against the rest of the
group. The fall of Saigon sounds like it had been quieter.

Couldn't imagine trying to actually *design* an airplane in such an environment.
You'll end up with folks pushing their own versions, with no knowledge of their
qualifications to do the design or even whether they've tried it themselves.
For a small airplane, for good or for bad, you need *one* designer. If you
don't like the way he does it, you're free to change it, but you don't get the
opportunity to push your version in front of his. Compared to a software
product, an airplane is a very long-term affair. Bad decisions early can lead
to death years later.

Ron Wanttaja

The second question/idea is a bit far out: Are there any "open source"
projects? It's obviously extremely difficult to exchange parts of
airplanes across the web, but people could develop something together
and everyone builds his or her own plane from the plans that come out
of this (and even those not building could bring in their expertise).
I know this is not computer software (even for a model airplane it
could work well), but has something like this been undertaken? Is it
feasible?

Oliver

If open source airplane designs worked like open source software I
wouldn't go near the end product -- because my life would depend on
it.

And if I ever find out open source software is running aircraft
systems I won't fly on it. But of course that will never happen.

wrote:
The second question/idea is a bit far out: Are there any "open source"
projects? It's obviously extremely difficult to exchange parts of
airplanes across the web, but people could develop something together
and everyone builds his or her own plane from the plans that come out
of this (and even those not building could bring in their expertise).
I know this is not computer software (even for a model airplane it
could work well), but has something like this been undertaken? Is it
feasible?

Oliver


If open source airplane designs worked like open source software I
wouldn't go near the end product -- because my life would depend on
it.

And if I ever find out open source software is running aircraft
systems I won't fly on it. But of course that will never happen.


Almost ALL experimental Amateur built airplanes would qualify as open
source...

Ernest Christley wrote:
cavalamb himself wrote:

Almost ALL experimental Amateur built airplanes would qualify as open
source...


Truer words have never been spoken.

I don't know what sockpuppet61 has against enthusiast checking over and
correcting each other's work, improving it and sharing their
improvements, but he obviously hasn't a clue what can be accomplished in
this way. I'm a full-time, won't-touch-Windows-any-more, Linux man. I
use it for both work and play, and it's performance is stellar. The
point is that if something goes wrong, I can (and have) go into the
source code and fix it.

Now, socketpuppet61 may not be able to, because he probably isn't a
software engineer, but the fact is that it can be done. I would trust
open-source that I could audit long before closed-source. As a matter
of fact, I'm doing exactly that. My engine controller will be a
Megasquirt unit that comes as a kit with open source software. It was
designed for cars, so I will be modifying it to make it more appropriate
for airplane use (mostly just making it simpler).

Amateur built airplanes are the same way. You have the plans. You can
change anything you like. The whole RV line began, because VanGrueson
had an airplane that he liked...except for a few handling issues. Can't
remember the name of the predecessor, and I think I mangled Van's name,
but he had the education, training, skill AND opportunity to fix what
he thought were the problems. The result is the all-time most
successful line of kit built airplanes.

As Ron mentioned, the problem with having people sit down and draw up a
design is that you don't know who's qualified and the end result won't
be seen for years. (With software, the end result can be produced in
minutes.) We do have open-source, though, in that you can cruise down
the homebuilt line at the fly-ins and take pictures of what you consider
good ideas. Talk to the builders and get their opinion of how their
modifications worked out. Maybe click through their web logs to see
what they're doing, and how they're doing it. You'll still need to get
a set of plans for the overall design, but you'll never be limited to
JUST what is in that one set of plans.


Ernest,

If I could find a comfortable CAD program for Linux, I'd join ya.

Richard

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:48:28 -0800 (PST), Oliver Arend
wrote:

The first question is really simple: Are there any free plans for
homebuilt aircraft on the web? It should have an engine and be able to
carry a person, apart from that I'm just interested in seeing what's
out there, if any...

The second question/idea is a bit far out: Are there any "open source"
projects? It's obviously extremely difficult to exchange parts of
airplanes across the web, but people could develop something together
and everyone builds his or her own plane from the plans that come out
of this (and even those not building could bring in their expertise).
I know this is not computer software (even for a model airplane it
could work well), but has something like this been undertaken? Is it
feasible?

Oliver

oliver your innocence has hidden something important from you.
the paper drawing is merely an implementation of a design.
what you must have and understand for designs that you build from
anonymous sources is the design calculations. these match the material
strengths and the structural layout to the predicted flight loads.
without these you have no idea what you are building.

if you are interested in a design then ask whether there were design
calculations. if there arent you need to develop the understanding
needed to do reverse engineering calcs for your self.

Stealth Pilot

On Jan 25, 7:13*pm, wrote:
The second question/idea is a bit far out: Are there any "open source"
projects? It's obviously extremely difficult to exchange parts of
airplanes across the web, but people could develop something together
and everyone builds his or her own plane from the plans that come out
of this (and even those not building could bring in their expertise).
I know this is not computer software (even for a model airplane it
could work well), but has something like this been undertaken? Is it
feasible?

Oliver

If open source airplane designs worked like open source software I
wouldn't go near the end product -- because my life would depend on
it.

And if I ever find out open source software is running aircraft
systems I won't fly on it. But of course that will never happen.

I would sooner fly with open source software running my aircraft than
anything put out by Microsoft or Apple. Nothing would put the fear of
flying into me more than thinking that I was dependent on anything put
out by those to companies.

On Jan 25, 10:16*pm, cavalamb himself wrote:
wrote:
The second question/idea is a bit far out: Are there any "open source"
projects? It's obviously extremely difficult to exchange parts of
airplanes across the web, but people could develop something together
and everyone builds his or her own plane from the plans that come out
of this (and even those not building could bring in their expertise).
I know this is not computer software (even for a model airplane it
could work well), but has something like this been undertaken? Is it
feasible?

Oliver

If open source airplane designs worked like open source software I
wouldn't go near the end product -- because my life would depend on
it.

And if I ever find out open source software is running aircraft
systems I won't fly on it. But of course that will never happen.

Almost ALL experimental Amateur built airplanes would qualify as open
source...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

When you get right down to it....the aviation industry has been open
source since it began. All the advancements in aviation design have
been largely improvements on prior designs. Hell, even Rutans designs
are throwbacks to the Wright Brothers.

"BobR" wrote

When you get right down to it....the aviation industry has been open
source since it began. All the advancements in aviation design have
been largely improvements on prior designs. Hell, even Rutans designs
are throwbacks to the Wright Brothers.

That's putting it a bit too simplistic, don't you think?

Wright brothers didn't use a stiff outer skin of cloth and resin to carry
the loads, did they? How about a feathering tail on a spaceship?

If you want to put it that way, Leonardo Da Vinci was copied by the Wright
Brothers.
--
Jim in NC

oliver your innocence has hidden something important from you.

Not exactly, as I've been studying aerospace engineering for about 5
years now. I know, unfortunately that's no proof of knowledge,
experience or wisdom...

what you must have and understand for designs that you build from
anonymous sources is the design calculations.

This could easily be integrated into an open source aircraft project,
don't you think? You take the structural members of the wing, the
flaps, whichever component (I know it becomes very tricky for certain
parts), do the calcs, and if it holds up you draw up the plan. If it
doesn't, back to the design.
This way the other participants could at least theoretically verify
what one has designed. And if you have a decent number of
participants, there will hardly be any points missed. Imagine an open-
source plane flying as well as Wikipedia compares to "regular"
encyclopedias like the Enc. Britannica or the Brockhaus.

Oliver