Refinishing gelcoat

In article ,
says...
To take Bill's point further, if the film could not
be shape changed somehow then there is no way you could
get span length roll of film to fit tightly to the
curves of a glider wing along its full length.

The material under discussion, with brand names like Monokote and
Solarfilm, can be formed around compound curves on a model airplane,
which are far sharper than those on a full size glider. It's very
thin, about 0.002 inches. See www.monokote.com
--
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directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

I din't know a lot about refinishing sailplane wings, but I do
refinish many vacuum forming tools. When I encounter
checking, gelcoat cracks or surface irregularitys that
produce markoff, I use catalized surfacing primers for cars.

We shoot it onto the surface and wipe it into the cracks/fissures
with our hands using gloves a couple coats does it. It sands well
and gets you to 600 grit smooth really quickly.

Why aren't we doing this. It seems that you could DA sand
the wings in a few hours, shoot 200 bucks worth of primer,
sand the primer in a few hours and be ready for topcoat.

Topcoats are about 150 a gallon ready to shoot.
Colorsand after paint andf you are done..........

So 600 bucks for materials and 10 hours each wing.
10 hours on the fuse/vert 4 hrs rudder, 4 hrs stab.
4 hrs each flap, 2 hrs each alerion 8 hrs diasaaembly
8 hrs reassembly.

66 hrs labor + 600 material....... 3100 for a repaint with auto paint??
337 field approval, logbook entry and move on.

Just thinking out loud.....

Scott

Solarfilm does not adhere as easily to fibreglass or resin covered surfaces
as it does to balsa. The adhesive soaks into the balsa surface to form a
very good bond but not into the resin. To overcome this the manufacturers
recommend using a coat of " Prymol" first in order to etch the surface
before applying the Solarfilm.

DB


tango4 wrote in message
...
John,

The application of heat, a little more than the average hairdryer
delivers,
both shrinks the film and activates a quite powerfull adhesive that is on
the underside of the film. The adhesive is strong enough to remove the
surface of underlying balsa structures when trying to remove the film to
repair an RC model..

I'll have a word with Jim Hammerton and see if he'll let us try it out on
the Ventus ( which has some surface cracking )

Ian



"John Galloway" wrote in
message ...
Bill Daniels wrote:

'I read several years ago about an aircraft finishing
system that involved an
thin film that was heat shrunk onto metal skins covering
joints, rivets and all.'


To take Bill's point further, if the film could not
be shape changed somehow then there is no way you could
get span length roll of film to fit tightly to the
curves of a glider wing along its full length.

John Galloway

"Scott Correa" wrote in message
...
I din't know a lot about refinishing sailplane wings, but I do
refinish many vacuum forming tools. When I encounter
checking, gelcoat cracks or surface irregularitys that
produce markoff, I use catalized surfacing primers for cars.

We shoot it onto the surface and wipe it into the cracks/fissures
with our hands using gloves a couple coats does it. It sands well
and gets you to 600 grit smooth really quickly.

Why aren't we doing this. It seems that you could DA sand
the wings in a few hours, shoot 200 bucks worth of primer,
sand the primer in a few hours and be ready for topcoat.

Topcoats are about 150 a gallon ready to shoot.
Colorsand after paint andf you are done..........

So 600 bucks for materials and 10 hours each wing.
10 hours on the fuse/vert 4 hrs rudder, 4 hrs stab.
4 hrs each flap, 2 hrs each alerion 8 hrs diasaaembly
8 hrs reassembly.

66 hrs labor + 600 material....... 3100 for a repaint with auto paint??
337 field approval, logbook entry and move on.

Just thinking out loud.....

Scott

Interesting stuff, Scott.

Got some brand names?

Bill Daniels

I think you are on the right track, Scott. I would think that epoxy squeegeed
(sp) into the cracks would have a better chance of lasting. Then prime and
paint with Uurathane which is softer than gel-coat and you might just get your
wings refinished for about half price. The problem with a glider repair shop
trying something like this, is they would have to stand behind their work and
nobody want's to take the chance. I din't know a lot about refinishing
sailplane wings, but I do
refinish many vacuum forming tools. When I encounter
checking, gelcoat cracks or surface irregularitys that
produce markoff, I use catalized surfacing primers for cars.

We shoot it onto the surface and wipe it into the cracks/fissures
with our hands using gloves a couple coats does it. It sands well
and gets you to 600 grit smooth really quickly.

Why aren't we doing this. It seems that you could DA sand
the wings in a few hours, shoot 200 bucks worth of primer,
sand the primer in a few hours and be ready for topcoat.

Topcoats are about 150 a gallon ready to shoot.
Colorsand after paint andf you are done..........

So 600 bucks for materials and 10 hours each wing.
10 hours on the fuse/vert 4 hrs rudder, 4 hrs stab.
4 hrs each flap, 2 hrs each alerion 8 hrs diasaaembly
8 hrs reassembly.

66 hrs labor + 600 material....... 3100 for a repaint with auto paint??
337 field approval, logbook entry and move on.

Just thinking out loud.....

Scott

JJ Sinclair

I once owned an ultralight aircraft called "American Falcon". Some of
you may recall their adverts on the back of some flying mag , with
Chuck Yaeger's face endorcing the little high wing canard.

It's wing is/was covered in Tedlar. This is a Du-pont product that is
stuck to the top of ribs etc with a foam backed doubled sided tape,
and subsequently heat shrunk. I re-covered the wing myself with the
help of a couple of friends.Any joints are done with a simple 2" wide
lap with an 8 thou' 1" wide polyester double sided tape.

My guess is that with a strip of polyester doubled sided tape along
the trailing edge, top and bottom just ahead of the ailerons etc, a
perimeter of this around the airbrake box, place some more around the
root and tip, this would do a great job.

Tedlar is used as a decorative/protective coating on all those
compound panels you see around windows in 737's etc.

It has a huge shring rate, and would certainly give a wrinkle free
finish if applied correctly. Better still the roll of Tedlar I got (in
white ) was 1.5m wide.



Cheers

Mark

Why aren't we doing this. It seems that you could DA sand
the wings in a few hours, shoot 200 bucks worth of primer,
sand the primer in a few hours and be ready for topcoat.


The issue of removing the old Gel Coat is generally a much bigger job
that most people realize the Gel Coat the quite hard and the composite
underneath is generally realtively soft and thin. So once you cut
through the Gel Coat the DA tends to quickly cut through the 1st
layer(s) of the composity very quickly weakening the structure. So
usually while a DA is carefully used to remove the majority of the
Gelcoat the last 10% of of it need to be carefully removed by hand
sanding to avoid damaging the composite.

Secondly those cracks in the Gel Coat as the get worse will transfer
into the Composit actually causing cracks in the Composite structure.
When removing the Gel Coat this can easily be seen as small white
cracks in the Epoxy itself. I have seen one aircraft that the 1st
layer of fiberglass had to be replaced because on all the cracks in
the fiberglass.

Even with Gelcoat the Materials are only a very small fraction of the
cost. The Majority of the cost is labor of removing the old Gel Coat.

Brian

Greg wrote
I had an LS-3 that was refinished this way (or so I was told). The
cracks returned after a few years.

So much for that idea. Do you know who refinished your LS-3, Greg? I know of an
ASK-21 that lasted pretty well for about 8 or 9 years, that had been refinished
this way and left out all the time. Obviously, all the lose stuff must be
removed, but my thought was to leave the small cracks that didn't go all the
way down to the glass. By using a long air-board, the contouring would be
munimal, if say 50% of the old gel-coat was left.


JJ Sinclair

I had an LS-3 that was refinished this way (or so I was told). The
cracks returned after a few years.


JJ Sinclair wrote:

I think you are on the right track, Scott. I would think that epoxy squeegeed
(sp) into the cracks would have a better chance of lasting. Then prime and
paint with Uurathane which is softer than gel-coat and you might just get your
wings refinished for about half price. The problem with a glider repair shop
trying something like this, is they would have to stand behind their work and
nobody want's to take the chance. I din't know a lot about refinishing
sailplane wings, but I do

refinish many vacuum forming tools. When I encounter
checking, gelcoat cracks or surface irregularitys that
produce markoff, I use catalized surfacing primers for cars.

We shoot it onto the surface and wipe it into the cracks/fissures
with our hands using gloves a couple coats does it. It sands well
and gets you to 600 grit smooth really quickly.

Why aren't we doing this. It seems that you could DA sand
the wings in a few hours, shoot 200 bucks worth of primer,
sand the primer in a few hours and be ready for topcoat.

Topcoats are about 150 a gallon ready to shoot.
Colorsand after paint andf you are done..........

So 600 bucks for materials and 10 hours each wing.
10 hours on the fuse/vert 4 hrs rudder, 4 hrs stab.
4 hrs each flap, 2 hrs each alerion 8 hrs diasaaembly
8 hrs reassembly.

66 hrs labor + 600 material....... 3100 for a repaint with auto paint??
337 field approval, logbook entry and move on.

Just thinking out loud.....

Scott


JJ Sinclair

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
.. .

...................
It's going to take some practice to get it on smoothly, I can see.
Part of the problem is the temperature required to activate the
adhesive (instructions say to set the iron at 275 F), which is well
above the epoxy limit. Another problem is avoiding air bubbles when
covering large areas. I'm sure these can be dealt with.

The biggest problem I can see is ensuring that the covering doesn't
peel up in flight, perhaps rendering an aileron or elevator unusable.
Determining the effects of long term exposure (longer than a year,
say) will be important, as gliders typically spend far more time
outdoors than model airplanes, so their experience might not be a good
guide. What will sunlight, desert temperatures and wave flight chills
do to the material when applied over fiberglass or carbon structures?

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

To answer some of your questions, I used such material on my Discus back in
1985. It was still intact when I sold it 16 years later.

First, rather than Monokote, use Econokote. Made by the same company but
requires a much lower temperature for application. Econokote (vice
Monokote) is recommended for covering over solid surfaces. Also, Econokote
is more easily stretched around curves. Solarfilm also has a lower
application temperature. With Monokote, the required bonding temperature
heats up the surface (Fiberglas wing in this case). The wing, which has
mass, holds the heat which results in many bubbles of the film. The lower
temp film is much less susceptible to bubbling. If a small bubble does
occur, you can puncture it with a pin and iron it smooth.

There is no real need to worry about the heat damaging the wing. The iron
should not be held in contact long enough to really heat the wing. Due to
the difference in mass of the film and the wing surface the film is heated
to the proper temp before the wing surface gets too hot.

What I used the film for was to make an "omega" seal in the aileron gap.
One side of a strip of film (about 1/2 inch wide) was ironed to the wing,
then looped into the gap, and about 1/2 inch of the other side ironed to the
aileron. Of course the strip of film was the length of the aileron. After
16 years there was no tendency to peel. I did this on the bottom of the
wing, no sun. However, I have not seen any bad effect on models that have
been in the sun for extended periods. Also, I did only small (two1/2 inch
wide) strips. Ironing the film on a large area (complete wing) would be
much, much more difficult to control bubbling and wrinkles. The film does
shrink with temp, however, when it is heated the adhesive is also heated
(and melts) and sticks to whatever it touches. Therefore, when doing a
large surface, it is difficult to heat the film without it touching the
surface that is being covered. Not impossible, just difficult.

Duane