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#11
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dew point?
A dew point above about 50 F indicates that storms are
possible and above 60 F that sever storms are likely due the available supply of latent heat. A close spread indicates that fog is possible, also a dew point around 60 with a air temp of 90 is a good indicator of carb ice conditions. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P -- The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome. some support http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties. "Peter R." wrote in message ... | wrote: | | Where does a pilot use the dew-point? | | A close temperature/dewpoint spread (less than 5 degree Celsius difference | between the two) can indicate the presence or possibility of fog. | | -- | Peter |
#12
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dew point?
Why does sun touching the earth form fog? I've seen it happen, but I've
never understood why. "Robert M. Gary" wrote in message ups.com... Live for one winter in Sacramento and you won't ask that question. Near sunrise most pilot have ATIS continuously tuned monitoring the dew point second by second. If the spread is right, the moment the first bit of sun touches the earth the fog forms, sometimes going from CAVU to 1/2 vis in just minutes. -Robert |
#13
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dew point?
Why does sun touching the earth form fog? I've seen it happen, but I've
never understood why. I"m sure if I get this wrong someone on the list will correct me. In Sacramento we receive two types of fog... 1) Advection Fog. This gets blown up from the Bay Area and usually forms late at night and will often stay around until mid-day. 2) Radition Fog. This is the stuff that forms out of the blue. I believe what happens is that the ground is already very moist but the moisture is held in the ground. Once the sun hits it the water on the ground warms releasing the moisture into the cool calm air. Sometimes you'll drive by a field and see the field totally engulfed in fog while the road you are on is clear. Unfortunately airports seem to be composed of a lot of grass and dirt areas. Perhaps if you paved the entire airport boundry you'd have less fog. I know some airports have used helicopter to just fly around and blow the fog around.This fog forms very, very fast at dawn. However, I've never been able to predict it. Sometimes given the same temp/dew points and winds fog will form, other times it will not. I'm not sure what all the factors are. |
#14
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dew point?
It causes some vertical motion which stirs the air a little,
casing the fog to form. "Steve Foley" wrote in message news:EkoNf.1255$v34.1168@trndny02... | Why does sun touching the earth form fog? I've seen it happen, but I've | never understood why. | "Robert M. Gary" wrote in message | ups.com... | Live for one winter in Sacramento and you won't ask that question. Near | sunrise most pilot have ATIS continuously tuned monitoring the dew | point second by second. If the spread is right, the moment the first | bit of sun touches the earth the fog forms, sometimes going from CAVU | to 1/2 vis in just minutes. | | -Robert | | | |
#15
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dew point?
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message news:%mqNf.107786$QW2.7653@dukeread08... It causes some vertical motion which stirs the air a little, casing the fog to form. Yes! The very coldest air at that time of morning is right at the surface of the earth. As it starts to mix with air above it, it cools a whole layer of 50 or a hundred feet or so, instead of just the thin surface layer. If the average moisture content through that layer is such that the cooling drops the temperature down to the average dew-point, bingo. If you watch weather reports carefully, you will find that in those clear-morning situations, the lowest temperature occurs *after* sunrise, when you would have expected that warming is started. But when this mixing starts, that coldest air at the surface (as part of the slight turbulence) reaches up to the 1 metre level where the "official" thermometers are kept. If you check a weather observing site which observes "grass" temperatures, such as an experimental farm or the like, you will see just how great this temperature difference between the grass level and the official 1 meter level can be at sunrise... exceeding 5 degrees Celsius in clear-sky cases. |
#16
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dew point?
That is also why it takes just a slight breeze to get thick
fog. No wind at all, no fog, stronger winds push the cloud bases up a few hundred feet and IFR becomes possible when ILS minimums are reached. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P -- The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome. some support http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties. "Icebound" wrote in message ... | | "Jim Macklin" wrote in message | news:%mqNf.107786$QW2.7653@dukeread08... | It causes some vertical motion which stirs the air a little, | casing the fog to form. | | | | | | Yes! | | The very coldest air at that time of morning is right at the surface of the | earth. As it starts to mix with air above it, it cools a whole layer of 50 | or a hundred feet or so, instead of just the thin surface layer. If the | average moisture content through that layer is such that the cooling drops | the temperature down to the average dew-point, bingo. | | If you watch weather reports carefully, you will find that in those | clear-morning situations, the lowest temperature occurs *after* sunrise, | when you would have expected that warming is started. But when this mixing | starts, that coldest air at the surface (as part of the slight turbulence) | reaches up to the 1 metre level where the "official" thermometers are kept. | | If you check a weather observing site which observes "grass" temperatures, | such as an experimental farm or the like, you will see just how great this | temperature difference between the grass level and the official 1 meter | level can be at sunrise... exceeding 5 degrees Celsius in clear-sky cases. | | | | | | | | | |
#17
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dew point?
On a clear night, the ground cools by radiation (IR) and the
air is cooled by conduction to the ground. Inversions are common. If there is an overcast, the IR cooling doesn't happen and the temperature will not drop as far. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P -- The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome. some support http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties. "Robert M. Gary" wrote in message oups.com... | When I flew the J-3 in Sacramento I would often take off in the butt | cold morning only to find it quite warm at altitude of 500 feet. | | -Robert | |
#18
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dew point?
Jim Macklin wrote:
On a clear night, the ground cools by radiation (IR) and the air is cooled by conduction to the ground. Inversions are common. Late one very clear night last year, I was flying back to Syracuse, NY, and the temperature at 10,000 feet was around -5 Celsius. As I started to descend for the approach, the cabin of the aircraft got noticeably colder (I didn't have the heat on). When I retrieved the ATIS for the airport, the temperature on the ground was a -25 Celsius. This was one of the more extreme examples of an inversion I have experienced. -- Peter |
#19
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dew point?
I think you mean.... "using the rule of thumb that the height (in feet) of
the bases of convective cloud is approximately 400 times the temperature-dewpoint spread at the surface (in degrees Celsius)" Yes, that's it... not so much the lapse rate as the conversion rate. Jose -- Money: what you need when you run out of brains. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#20
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dew point?
conversion rate.
convergence rate. Jose -- Money: what you need when you run out of brains. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
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