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soaring on Mars?
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soaring on Mars?
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 9:16:55 PM UTC-5, Moshe Braner wrote:
If there are dust devils there is lift! https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/a-na...rs-3000th-day/ Agreed but the 'air' pressure on Mars is around 6mb vs. 1013.25mb (0.1771 inHg vs. 29.92 inHg), so the wing design and speeds at which said wing will have to move to produce lift will be dramatically different compared to what we are used to. Uli 'AS' |
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soaring on Mars?
20-some years ago, AeroVironment proposed a glider for Mars photography. They got as far as testing a model, as shown in this short video:
http://www.airspacemag.com/videos/ca...rs-airplane_1/ |
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soaring on Mars?
Retrieves would be challenging....
Cheers, Jim J6 On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 9:37:26 PM UTC-6, John Good wrote: 20-some years ago, AeroVironment proposed a glider for Mars photography. They got as far as testing a model, as shown in this short video: http://www.airspacemag.com/videos/ca...rs-airplane_1/ |
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soaring on Mars?
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 19:37:23 -0800, John Good wrote:
20-some years ago, AeroVironment proposed a glider for Mars photography. They got as far as testing a model, as shown in this short video: http://www.airspacemag.com/videos/ca...esting-a-mars- airplane_1/ Around the same time Aurora tested a marsplane: this one was a bit bigger and was designed to fold up to fit one of the standard aeroshells. It was tested at around 100,000 ft, where air pressure is similar to Martian ground level, by drolling it from a high altutude balool launched from Hawaii. I remember talking about it with Bob Parks, who was the Aurora project member when ARES was being set up and flew it for the high altitude tests. He joked that if he'd been on the ball he could have claimed a near-unbeatable FAI speed record when he was flying back to the islands after a test - he reckoned it had hit around 500 mph early in the return leg when still very high up. https://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley..._ARES.htmls:// media.xconomy.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/2007/10/062 https://www.spacedaily.com/news/ marsplane-02b.html15133/1491665020_1004ad04ee.jpg -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
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soaring on Mars?
As any true aviator (helicopter pilot) knows the first flight on another world will be by the premier of all aircraft, the helicopter.
Mankind's magic carpet. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/s...pter-nasa.html On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 7:00:42 AM UTC-8, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 19:37:23 -0800, John Good wrote: 20-some years ago, AeroVironment proposed a glider for Mars photography. They got as far as testing a model, as shown in this short video: http://www.airspacemag.com/videos/ca...esting-a-mars- airplane_1/ Around the same time Aurora tested a marsplane: this one was a bit bigger and was designed to fold up to fit one of the standard aeroshells. It was tested at around 100,000 ft, where air pressure is similar to Martian ground level, by drolling it from a high altutude balool launched from Hawaii. I remember talking about it with Bob Parks, who was the Aurora project member when ARES was being set up and flew it for the high altitude tests. He joked that if he'd been on the ball he could have claimed a near-unbeatable FAI speed record when he was flying back to the islands after a test - he reckoned it had hit around 500 mph early in the return leg when still very high up. https://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley..._ARES.htmls:// media.xconomy.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/2007/10/062 https://www.spacedaily.com/news/ marsplane-02b.html15133/1491665020_1004ad04ee.jpg -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
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soaring on Mars?
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:13:49 -0800, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
As any true aviator (helicopter pilot) knows the first flight on another world will be by the premier of all aircraft, the helicopter. Mankind's magic carpet. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/s...pter-nasa.html Yep, heard about it, but thanks for posting that URL. It will be interesting to see how well it does on RealMars (TM). In Martian conditions a helicopter makes more sense than a powered plane or glider because it should have a much lower landing speed. BTW, the Aurora ARES design had an inverted V tail on twin booms to keep the stabiliser clear of exhaust from a rocket unit mounted on the centre line at the wing's TE) - a common design in the S-8P rocket glider RC competition class which, oddly enough, Bob Parks competes in with his own- design models. -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
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soaring on Mars?
On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 5:48:31 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 1/15/21 6:39 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:13:49 -0800, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: As any true aviator (helicopter pilot) knows the first flight on another world will be by the premier of all aircraft, the helicopter. Mankind's magic carpet. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/s...pter-nasa.html Yep, heard about it, but thanks for posting that URL. It will be interesting to see how well it does on RealMars (TM). In Martian conditions a helicopter makes more sense than a powered plane or glider because it should have a much lower landing speed. BTW, the Aurora ARES design had an inverted V tail on twin booms to keep the stabiliser clear of exhaust from a rocket unit mounted on the centre line at the wing's TE) - a common design in the S-8P rocket glider RC competition class which, oddly enough, Bob Parks competes in with his own- design models. What helicopter can fly at 100,000' (the air density in the Martian atmosphere)? If there is one, I'd like to know about the rotor design as my gyro plane can't get much above 10,000'. Oh yeah, it'll have to carry its own oxygen for combustion unless it's going to get really exotic. Well Dan, if you read the article, you'll see: "About 20 years ago, it couldn’t have been possible, really, because of the math,” said Ms. Aung who was a deputy manager of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory’s autonomous systems division before joining the Mars project. But a number of advances, such as miniaturization of electronics, batteries that stored more energy and materials that could be shaped into lightweight blades, had finally made the dream of Mars flying machines into a technological possibility, Ms. Aung said. |
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soaring on Mars?
On 1/15/21 7:43 PM, 5Z wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 5:48:31 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote: On 1/15/21 6:39 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:13:49 -0800, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: As any true aviator (helicopter pilot) knows the first flight on another world will be by the premier of all aircraft, the helicopter. Mankind's magic carpet. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/s...pter-nasa.html Yep, heard about it, but thanks for posting that URL. It will be interesting to see how well it does on RealMars (TM). In Martian conditions a helicopter makes more sense than a powered plane or glider because it should have a much lower landing speed. BTW, the Aurora ARES design had an inverted V tail on twin booms to keep the stabiliser clear of exhaust from a rocket unit mounted on the centre line at the wing's TE) - a common design in the S-8P rocket glider RC competition class which, oddly enough, Bob Parks competes in with his own- design models. What helicopter can fly at 100,000' (the air density in the Martian atmosphere)? If there is one, I'd like to know about the rotor design as my gyro plane can't get much above 10,000'. Oh yeah, it'll have to carry its own oxygen for combustion unless it's going to get really exotic. Well Dan, if you read the article, you'll see: "About 20 years ago, it couldn’t have been possible, really, because of the math,” said Ms. Aung who was a deputy manager of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory’s autonomous systems division before joining the Mars project. But a number of advances, such as miniaturization of electronics, batteries that stored more energy and materials that could be shaped into lightweight blades, had finally made the dream of Mars flying machines into a technological possibility, Ms. Aung said. Well Tom, I guess I've got a lot of reading to do. Do you remember Joe Berger? I believe he submitted a proposal for a fold up glider for the Mars project. Wonder what ever became of it/him. -- Dan 5J |
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soaring on Mars?
On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 08:40:46 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 1/15/21 7:43 PM, 5Z wrote: On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 5:48:31 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote: On 1/15/21 6:39 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:13:49 -0800, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: As any true aviator (helicopter pilot) knows the first flight on another world will be by the premier of all aircraft, the helicopter. Mankind's magic carpet. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/s...pter-nasa.html Yep, heard about it, but thanks for posting that URL. It will be interesting to see how well it does on RealMars (TM). In Martian conditions a helicopter makes more sense than a powered plane or glider because it should have a much lower landing speed. BTW, the Aurora ARES design had an inverted V tail on twin booms to keep the stabiliser clear of exhaust from a rocket unit mounted on the centre line at the wing's TE) - a common design in the S-8P rocket glider RC competition class which, oddly enough, Bob Parks competes in with his own- design models. What helicopter can fly at 100,000' (the air density in the Martian atmosphere)? If there is one, I'd like to know about the rotor design as my gyro plane can't get much above 10,000'. Oh yeah, it'll have to carry its own oxygen for combustion unless it's going to get really exotic. Well Dan, if you read the article, you'll see: "About 20 years ago, it couldn’t have been possible, really, because of the math,” said Ms. Aung who was a deputy manager of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory’s autonomous systems division before joining the Mars project. But a number of advances, such as miniaturization of electronics, batteries that stored more energy and materials that could be shaped into lightweight blades, had finally made the dream of Mars flying machines into a technological possibility, Ms. Aung said. Well Tom, I guess I've got a lot of reading to do. Do you remember Joe Berger? I believe he submitted a proposal for a fold up glider for the Mars project. Wonder what ever became of it/him. IIRC one of those even made it to the stage of a half-scale test version -that's the one Aurora made and dropped from a balloon at 100,000 ft. It looked a little like a DH Vampi the real thing would have had rocket propulsion, hence the twin booms and inverted V tail: the rocket was at the rear of the wing centre section: https://www.spacedaily.com/news/marsplane-02b.html -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
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