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Flarm Net



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 6th 16, 10:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default Flarm Net

Thanks. I just got back from the airport (no flying today) and Renny
and I cranked up our portables, mine in my glider in the hangar and
Renny took his out of his glider and drove it around in his car. In all
cases I saw only the arrow on the PF portable display and I saw his ID
on my Streak (XCSoar) Flarm Radar display. Can't wait to try it in flight.

Dan

On 11/6/2016 9:31 AM, Ramy wrote:
I suspect Eric refers to Flarm ID, not contest ID. Or is referring to external display. Otherwise I am also puzzled how he manage to get flarmnet data into a powerflarm portable.

Ramy


--
Dan, 5J
  #12  
Old November 7th 16, 12:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy Blackburn[_3_]
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Posts: 608
Default Flarm Net

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 1:40:13 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks. I just got back from the airport (no flying today) and Renny
and I cranked up our portables, mine in my glider in the hangar and
Renny took his out of his glider and drove it around in his car. In all
cases I saw only the arrow on the PF portable display and I saw his ID
on my Streak (XCSoar) Flarm Radar display. Can't wait to try it in flight.

Dan

On 11/6/2016 9:31 AM, Ramy wrote:
I suspect Eric refers to Flarm ID, not contest ID. Or is referring to external display. Otherwise I am also puzzled how he manage to get flarmnet data into a powerflarm portable.

Ramy


--
Dan, 5J


Welcome to the dark side 5J. We're glad to have you!

9B
  #13  
Old November 7th 16, 02:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default Flarm Net

Dan Marotta wrote on 11/6/2016 7:28 AM:
Eric,

I just reviewed the manual/page you referenced and it looks to me like
the FlarmNet info is presented on the Butterfly display rather than the
PowerFlarm Portable display. Can you confirm one more time that you see
FlarmNet info, e.g., call sign on the Portable's built-in display or is
it on a connected display?


It's my understanding the display in the portable is a Butterfly
display, just like the one that comes with the Core, and that it's
updated the same way. I don't recall my portable in the Phoenix
operating any differently in flight than the Core in my other glider.

My portable is at the airport, so I can't check directly for a few days.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
  #14  
Old November 7th 16, 02:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,610
Default Flarm Net

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 8:04:35 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
It's my understanding the display in the portable is a Butterfly
display, just like the one that comes with the Core.


No, it is not. That is completely wrong.
The portable display uses its own distinct display code,
running on a single processor with FLARM main processing.
  #15  
Old November 7th 16, 02:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default Flarm Net

Dave Nadler wrote on 11/6/2016 5:09 PM:
On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 8:04:35 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
It's my understanding the display in the portable is a Butterfly
display, just like the one that comes with the Core.


No, it is not. That is completely wrong.
The portable display uses its own distinct display code,
running on a single processor with FLARM main processing.


So you know that Flarmnet doesn't work on the portable?


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
  #16  
Old November 7th 16, 05:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default Flarm Net

Well, it worked this way:

1. It belonged to George Applebay and had never been used, though Renny
kept the firmware up to date.
2. It was priced at less than 50% of retail.
3. In several flights, I've had only one Flarm contact and I had him
visually first.
4. I was already familiar with PCAS. But I think the PCAS display on
the PF portable can be misleading unless you understand how PCAS works.
One might be tempted to think that the target is at 3 o'clock rather
than anywhere around the circle drawn on the display.
5. I like receiving ADS-B targets though, for the most part, they're
displayed at +99. Still I think I've seen one that was only about +27
and that, added to my altitude told me that he was VFR and eastbound.
Or maybe that was a PCAS target.
6. I have Flarm targets displayed on my Streak/XCSoar. I just made
that happen during ground testing. I don't see anything in the manuals
to indicate that I'll see PCAS targets though that would be nice, too.
7. I've joined FlarmNet.
8. It'll probably be the spring before it gets any real use.
9. Since I've had only 1 Flarm contact, I submitted that igc file to
the performance analysis tool and it looked pretty good for over 300
deg. Kinda weak at 6 o'clock, though. I'll wait until I have better
data before cutting my antenna cables to length.

Thanks for the welcome.

On 11/6/2016 4:49 PM, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 1:40:13 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks. I just got back from the airport (no flying today) and Renny
and I cranked up our portables, mine in my glider in the hangar and
Renny took his out of his glider and drove it around in his car. In all
cases I saw only the arrow on the PF portable display and I saw his ID
on my Streak (XCSoar) Flarm Radar display. Can't wait to try it in flight.

Dan

On 11/6/2016 9:31 AM, Ramy wrote:
I suspect Eric refers to Flarm ID, not contest ID. Or is referring to external display. Otherwise I am also puzzled how he manage to get flarmnet data into a powerflarm portable.

Ramy

--
Dan, 5J

Welcome to the dark side 5J. We're glad to have you!

9B


--
Dan, 5J
  #17  
Old November 7th 16, 05:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default Flarm Net

My data set is small but my immediate opinion, based upon about 20
minutes of driving a car carrying a portable around the airport, is that
it doesn't display FlarmNet information on the portable's built-in
display. My portable's display showed the expected arrow head symbol
only. My Streak/XCSoar showed the symbol and "3R" which is Renny's call
sign. I could also see the 6-hex-character identifiers of the airliners
overhead.

On 11/6/2016 6:22 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Dave Nadler wrote on 11/6/2016 5:09 PM:
On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 8:04:35 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
It's my understanding the display in the portable is a Butterfly
display, just like the one that comes with the Core.


No, it is not. That is completely wrong.
The portable display uses its own distinct display code,
running on a single processor with FLARM main processing.


So you know that Flarmnet doesn't work on the portable?



--
Dan, 5J
  #18  
Old November 7th 16, 06:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,610
Default Flarm Net

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 8:22:56 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
So you know that Flarmnet doesn't work on the portable?


Portable PowerFLARM displays *NO* identification info for targets.
Neither does PowerFLARM Core use FLARMnet.
FLARMnet info is used by display devices to map FLARM ID into other identification info.

FLARM provides BFN/BFW support for update of downstream Butterfly products.
For example, I can update the software and/or FLARMnet info in my
Butterfly displays by placing these files on a USB stick, plugging
into Core, and then powering on whilst holding down button on Butterfly.
  #19  
Old November 8th 16, 11:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Craig Funston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 208
Default Flarm Net

On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 9:03:34 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 8:22:56 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
So you know that Flarmnet doesn't work on the portable?


Portable PowerFLARM displays *NO* identification info for targets.
Neither does PowerFLARM Core use FLARMnet.
FLARMnet info is used by display devices to map FLARM ID into other identification info.

FLARM provides BFN/BFW support for update of downstream Butterfly products.
For example, I can update the software and/or FLARMnet info in my
Butterfly displays by placing these files on a USB stick, plugging
into Core, and then powering on whilst holding down button on Butterfly.


Dan,

It took me a long time to realize that the PowerFLARM Core and the Butterfly Display are two SEPARATE computers that happen to talk to each other. The Butterfly display is the computer that takes the FLARMnet data and attaches it to the signals the Core sends to it. I kept trying to think of the display as a dumb screen for the core & that got in the way of understanding how to deal with them.

Dave's stated pretty categorically that the Portable doesn't attach FLARMnet data and if anyone would know, it's Dave. That seem logical since it's missing the additional processing provided by a butterfly display (computer)..

Glad to hear you've joined the FLARM tribe.

Cheers,
Craig
  #20  
Old November 9th 16, 02:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default Flarm Net

Thanks Craig,

I've got it all working. The PF portable is on top of the glare shield
and my Streak running XCSoar is on a stalk below the EFIS. The Streak
displays Flarm targets on the moving map as well as a Flarm radar
display which also displays FlarmNet ID. As soon as I get comfortable
with the Flarm stuff on the Streak, I'll move the portable to the right
side so my wife will have a display as well. Two sets of eyes are always
better than one.

Dan

On 11/8/2016 3:25 PM, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 9:03:34 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 8:22:56 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
So you know that Flarmnet doesn't work on the portable?

Portable PowerFLARM displays *NO* identification info for targets.
Neither does PowerFLARM Core use FLARMnet.
FLARMnet info is used by display devices to map FLARM ID into other identification info.

FLARM provides BFN/BFW support for update of downstream Butterfly products.
For example, I can update the software and/or FLARMnet info in my
Butterfly displays by placing these files on a USB stick, plugging
into Core, and then powering on whilst holding down button on Butterfly.

Dan,

It took me a long time to realize that the PowerFLARM Core and the Butterfly Display are two SEPARATE computers that happen to talk to each other. The Butterfly display is the computer that takes the FLARMnet data and attaches it to the signals the Core sends to it. I kept trying to think of the display as a dumb screen for the core & that got in the way of understanding how to deal with them.

Dave's stated pretty categorically that the Portable doesn't attach FLARMnet data and if anyone would know, it's Dave. That seem logical since it's missing the additional processing provided by a butterfly display (computer).

Glad to hear you've joined the FLARM tribe.

Cheers,
Craig


--
Dan, 5J
 




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