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#1
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"ShawnD2112" wrote in message ...
How well do the seat packs work in the Pitts? While I have a cushion or two under me, I didn't think there would be enough room for a seatpack chute. Obviously I was wrong? I have three cushions, 1", 2" & 4" thick for each seat bottom (as well as 1" & 2" back cushions). Combination used depends on pilot height. I'm 5' 11" and use the 1" in the back seat. Note that the back seat has the least head room; you can jack up a little higher in the front. The advantage of the seat pack is that it keeps you further from the panel. The panel is a bit close (for me) to begin with. In the Decathlon I used a back pack with no cushion behind it. Different seat geometry. In the Yak I used seat packs; they have a bucket for that. Hope this helps... Doug Carter Pitts S2-C. p.s. All my friends with S1-S & S1-T single seaters use seat packs as well. dc |
#2
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"ShawnD2112" wrote in message news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win...
Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in the cockpit are major considerations. Thanks! Shawn Shawn, I just bought a softie chute for my Pitts S1C. It is a special one made for the Pitts S1. It is a seatpack in the shape of a wedge. Its not listed on their web site but they will make you one. I'm a big guy and the S1C is the smallest Pitts. If it works for me in my plane it should work for you in yours. Call Dan or Jim at Parapania and ask about it. Good Luck, Ernie |
#3
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Ernie,
I think Jim was telling me about you. He mentioned making one special for a C when I spoke to him last week. He suggested I go for a seatpack since I'm sitting on about 4" of cushion at the moment. Only being 5 10" I've got a bit of headroom to play with. Which harness rig did you go for? How satisfied were you with their customer service? How comfortable is your rig during aerobatics? Thanks for the tips, Shawn "Ernest C. Byars" wrote in message om... "ShawnD2112" wrote in message news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win... Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in the cockpit are major considerations. Thanks! Shawn Shawn, I just bought a softie chute for my Pitts S1C. It is a special one made for the Pitts S1. It is a seatpack in the shape of a wedge. Its not listed on their web site but they will make you one. I'm a big guy and the S1C is the smallest Pitts. If it works for me in my plane it should work for you in yours. Call Dan or Jim at Parapania and ask about it. Good Luck, Ernie |
#4
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"ShawnD2112" wrote in message ...
Ernie, I think Jim was telling me about you. He mentioned making one special for a C when I spoke to him last week. He suggested I go for a seatpack since I'm sitting on about 4" of cushion at the moment. Only being 5 10" I've got a bit of headroom to play with. Which harness rig did you go for? How satisfied were you with their customer service? How comfortable is your rig during aerobatics? Thanks for the tips, Shawn "Ernest C. Byars" wrote in message om... "ShawnD2112" wrote in message news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win... Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in the cockpit are major considerations. Thanks! Shawn Shawn, I just bought a softie chute for my Pitts S1C. It is a special one made for the Pitts S1. It is a seatpack in the shape of a wedge. Its not listed on their web site but they will make you one. I'm a big guy and the S1C is the smallest Pitts. If it works for me in my plane it should work for you in yours. Call Dan or Jim at Parapania and ask about it. Good Luck, Ernie Shawn, I am very satisfied with their service. Dan said he would take the chute back if I was not happy with it. I don't think you will find much better service than that. If you can use a 4" cushion you won't have a problem. I was sitting on a 2" cushion before. With the wedge seat pack I can even move it foreword to sit lower than a 2" cushion. My plane is open cockpit so if I sit too high I am out in the slipstream. If you have a canopy you should be able to sit higher than me. I am 5' 11" so that gives you another inch to work with. You may not even need the wedge option. I like the wedge because I can adjust my height in the cockpit by moving the chute foreword or back. I went for the standard harness instead of the aerobatic harness. I asked Jim this question. What is the disadvantage of the aerobatic harness? His answer, the disadvantage of the aerobatic harness vs. the normal is it takes more time to put the aerobatic harness on. The plus is the normal harness may be uncomfortable during extended negative G maneuvers if your seat belts go across the quick releases. Negative G maneuvers may cause the quick releases to press hard into your thighs causing pain or even bruises. My seatbelts did not interfere with the quick releases so I opted for the standard harness. They provided me a chute to try out before purchase. I initially wanted the aerobatic harness but the standard harness was comfortable. So I ordered the standard one. I don't think a chute will ever be as comfortable as a cushion though. But the added safety factor is a real plus when you are doing maneuvers for the first time or in the event of an airframe failure. I hope I have answered some of your questions. If I can be of more help please let me know. Ernie |
#5
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You certainly have answered some questions for me, Ernie. Thanks very much.
I wish I could try one on before buying but being in the UK makes it a bit inconvenient. However, Jim said they'd keep working until I was happy, no matter how many times I had to send it back to them for refitting or whatever. You can't argue with a deal like that. Cheers, Shawn "Ernest C. Byars" wrote in message om... "ShawnD2112" wrote in message ... Ernie, I think Jim was telling me about you. He mentioned making one special for a C when I spoke to him last week. He suggested I go for a seatpack since I'm sitting on about 4" of cushion at the moment. Only being 5 10" I've got a bit of headroom to play with. Which harness rig did you go for? How satisfied were you with their customer service? How comfortable is your rig during aerobatics? Thanks for the tips, Shawn "Ernest C. Byars" wrote in message om... "ShawnD2112" wrote in message news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win... Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in the cockpit are major considerations. Thanks! Shawn Shawn, I just bought a softie chute for my Pitts S1C. It is a special one made for the Pitts S1. It is a seatpack in the shape of a wedge. Its not listed on their web site but they will make you one. I'm a big guy and the S1C is the smallest Pitts. If it works for me in my plane it should work for you in yours. Call Dan or Jim at Parapania and ask about it. Good Luck, Ernie Shawn, I am very satisfied with their service. Dan said he would take the chute back if I was not happy with it. I don't think you will find much better service than that. If you can use a 4" cushion you won't have a problem. I was sitting on a 2" cushion before. With the wedge seat pack I can even move it foreword to sit lower than a 2" cushion. My plane is open cockpit so if I sit too high I am out in the slipstream. If you have a canopy you should be able to sit higher than me. I am 5' 11" so that gives you another inch to work with. You may not even need the wedge option. I like the wedge because I can adjust my height in the cockpit by moving the chute foreword or back. I went for the standard harness instead of the aerobatic harness. I asked Jim this question. What is the disadvantage of the aerobatic harness? His answer, the disadvantage of the aerobatic harness vs. the normal is it takes more time to put the aerobatic harness on. The plus is the normal harness may be uncomfortable during extended negative G maneuvers if your seat belts go across the quick releases. Negative G maneuvers may cause the quick releases to press hard into your thighs causing pain or even bruises. My seatbelts did not interfere with the quick releases so I opted for the standard harness. They provided me a chute to try out before purchase. I initially wanted the aerobatic harness but the standard harness was comfortable. So I ordered the standard one. I don't think a chute will ever be as comfortable as a cushion though. But the added safety factor is a real plus when you are doing maneuvers for the first time or in the event of an airframe failure. I hope I have answered some of your questions. If I can be of more help please let me know. Ernie |
#6
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Shawn,
My Pitts S1- C (with D fuselage) came with a National chairpack. What I didn't know at the time was the previous owner had set a piece of plywood across the seat bottom frame to increase his eye height. This is a good combination, as the visibility is as good as it can be, and when I'm hanging upside down I can just feel my dangling hair touch the canopy. I took the plywood out to try some circuits one day, and the 1.5" less height seriously reduced the visibility (and the quality of my landings). This chairpack doesn't give me good lumbar support, which I can feel on a cross-country flight, but it's fine for g's. I can actually feel the diaper through my rear end, but because the packed parachute is quite firm on the bottom portion it doesn't tend to move or squish on higher g's. Without the plywood, I think a seatpack would be the best for this aircraft and me (6'160#). I don't think any type of backpack would be comfortable in this aircraft, and even worse in a 'C' fuselage. The parachutes are all tested and TSO'd in different categories. Older style systems were either low speed (under 150mph) or standard category. Military surplus are all standard category. Drop testing was done to a standard that (theoretically) imparted a shock load on the system, which decided in which category the system fit. 3000 and 5000 lbs seems to ring a bell here. Later TSO requirements of C23c allowed for 3 different categories, cat B being the most common -- a drop testing of 300 lbs at 175kts, with placarding at 254lbs at 150 kts. TSO C23D allowed for more categories with different weight/speed restrictions, which was great for the extra lighter or heavier user who may need different requirements. Current day standards call for a "full-stow" diaper on a round parachute, which stages the parachute deployment, thus increasing the reliability of the opening. Without a diaper the parachute is allowed to open before the lines become taut -- imagine the shock when the lines finally tighten up on a parachute partially open already! In the days before the full stow diaper, the lines were unstowed from the pack tray, which allowed for the potential of arms and legs to get tangled up in the unstowing lines (especially for a pilot making his first jump and not maintaining balance/stability on the relative airflow). The full stow diaper carries all of the line stows on it, so the lines unstow from the top down, and once the parachute is out of the container the the lines are well out of the reach of an unstable pilot. The opening speeds here are very important, as the drag from the opening parachute increases in square to the speed increase. My Pitts has a VNE of 203mph/176kt, which could easily cause damage to a parachute rated at only 150 kts. Higher speed parachute systems incorporate other staging devices to inhibit the opening of the parachute for a very short period of time while the parachute and user slow down; all to reduce the opening shock to an acceptable level. Altitude above sea level plays a part here as well, as parachutes tend to open faster/harder in thinner air (don't ask me why) and they land faster too. Landing a parachute may be a consideration here as well. While the cockpit may only have enough room for a 24' parachute, the 200 pound user may find extensive lower leg and back injuries a real possibility after a successful bailout, and our bones take longer to heal as we get older.... I manufacture, repair, repack and sell all kinds of parachute equipment for my business. Good luck on picking the 'right' system for you and your Pitts. Al MacDonald Flying High Manufacturing Inc. "ShawnD2112" wrote in message news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win... Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in the cockpit are major considerations. Thanks! Shawn |
#7
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Al,
Thanks for the info - the most informative response to date. In the meantime since my first post, and based on the reponses I got here, I've gone with the Softie seat pack. Confirmed the order last week and it should arrive soon. Looking forward to receiving it and seeing how it all fits. Cheers, Shawn "Al MacDonald" wrote in message news:0YRKc.43754$2i3.11107@clgrps12... Shawn, My Pitts S1- C (with D fuselage) came with a National chairpack. What I didn't know at the time was the previous owner had set a piece of plywood across the seat bottom frame to increase his eye height. This is a good combination, as the visibility is as good as it can be, and when I'm hanging upside down I can just feel my dangling hair touch the canopy. I took the plywood out to try some circuits one day, and the 1.5" less height seriously reduced the visibility (and the quality of my landings). This chairpack doesn't give me good lumbar support, which I can feel on a cross-country flight, but it's fine for g's. I can actually feel the diaper through my rear end, but because the packed parachute is quite firm on the bottom portion it doesn't tend to move or squish on higher g's. Without the plywood, I think a seatpack would be the best for this aircraft and me (6'160#). I don't think any type of backpack would be comfortable in this aircraft, and even worse in a 'C' fuselage. The parachutes are all tested and TSO'd in different categories. Older style systems were either low speed (under 150mph) or standard category. Military surplus are all standard category. Drop testing was done to a standard that (theoretically) imparted a shock load on the system, which decided in which category the system fit. 3000 and 5000 lbs seems to ring a bell here. Later TSO requirements of C23c allowed for 3 different categories, cat B being the most common -- a drop testing of 300 lbs at 175kts, with placarding at 254lbs at 150 kts. TSO C23D allowed for more categories with different weight/speed restrictions, which was great for the extra lighter or heavier user who may need different requirements. Current day standards call for a "full-stow" diaper on a round parachute, which stages the parachute deployment, thus increasing the reliability of the opening. Without a diaper the parachute is allowed to open before the lines become taut -- imagine the shock when the lines finally tighten up on a parachute partially open already! In the days before the full stow diaper, the lines were unstowed from the pack tray, which allowed for the potential of arms and legs to get tangled up in the unstowing lines (especially for a pilot making his first jump and not maintaining balance/stability on the relative airflow). The full stow diaper carries all of the line stows on it, so the lines unstow from the top down, and once the parachute is out of the container the the lines are well out of the reach of an unstable pilot. The opening speeds here are very important, as the drag from the opening parachute increases in square to the speed increase. My Pitts has a VNE of 203mph/176kt, which could easily cause damage to a parachute rated at only 150 kts. Higher speed parachute systems incorporate other staging devices to inhibit the opening of the parachute for a very short period of time while the parachute and user slow down; all to reduce the opening shock to an acceptable level. Altitude above sea level plays a part here as well, as parachutes tend to open faster/harder in thinner air (don't ask me why) and they land faster too. Landing a parachute may be a consideration here as well. While the cockpit may only have enough room for a 24' parachute, the 200 pound user may find extensive lower leg and back injuries a real possibility after a successful bailout, and our bones take longer to heal as we get older.... I manufacture, repair, repack and sell all kinds of parachute equipment for my business. Good luck on picking the 'right' system for you and your Pitts. Al MacDonald Flying High Manufacturing Inc. "ShawnD2112" wrote in message news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win... Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in the cockpit are major considerations. Thanks! Shawn |
#8
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Shawn, I forgot something very important!
I'd strongly suggest you make a habit of putting on the parachute and then getting in the Pitts. Get out of the Pitts with the parachute on, then remove it. Do NOT get in the habit of getting out of the plane without your parachute on, as it could cultivate a very bad habit (and make you look rather stupid in the obituary). I know it's a bit of a pain with my chairpack, and probably even more so with the seat pack, but well worth the extra effort. One other thing: repacks. In Canada there are no laws/regulations requiring you to wear a parachute or when it has to be repacked. Not so in the USA, where the repack cycle is currently 120 days and wearing an out of date parachute is breaking one of the FARs. It may be a good idea to check into what your legal requirements are in the UK, if I understood correctly that is where you are from. While I feel somewhat obligated to advise my customers on the rules in Canada vs. the US in this department vs. the manufacturers instructions, realistically most of the glider parachutes are lucky to show up here for an annual repack. That's all. al. "ShawnD2112" wrote in message ... Al, Thanks for the info - the most informative response to date. In the meantime since my first post, and based on the reponses I got here, I've gone with the Softie seat pack. Confirmed the order last week and it should arrive soon. Looking forward to receiving it and seeing how it all fits. Cheers, Shawn "Al MacDonald" wrote in message news:0YRKc.43754$2i3.11107@clgrps12... Shawn, My Pitts S1- C (with D fuselage) came with a National chairpack. What I didn't know at the time was the previous owner had set a piece of plywood across the seat bottom frame to increase his eye height. This is a good combination, as the visibility is as good as it can be, and when I'm hanging upside down I can just feel my dangling hair touch the canopy. I took the plywood out to try some circuits one day, and the 1.5" less height seriously reduced the visibility (and the quality of my landings). This chairpack doesn't give me good lumbar support, which I can feel on a cross-country flight, but it's fine for g's. I can actually feel the diaper through my rear end, but because the packed parachute is quite firm on the bottom portion it doesn't tend to move or squish on higher g's. Without the plywood, I think a seatpack would be the best for this aircraft and me (6'160#). I don't think any type of backpack would be comfortable in this aircraft, and even worse in a 'C' fuselage. The parachutes are all tested and TSO'd in different categories. Older style systems were either low speed (under 150mph) or standard category. Military surplus are all standard category. Drop testing was done to a standard that (theoretically) imparted a shock load on the system, which decided in which category the system fit. 3000 and 5000 lbs seems to ring a bell here. Later TSO requirements of C23c allowed for 3 different categories, cat B being the most common -- a drop testing of 300 lbs at 175kts, with placarding at 254lbs at 150 kts. TSO C23D allowed for more categories with different weight/speed restrictions, which was great for the extra lighter or heavier user who may need different requirements. Current day standards call for a "full-stow" diaper on a round parachute, which stages the parachute deployment, thus increasing the reliability of the opening. Without a diaper the parachute is allowed to open before the lines become taut -- imagine the shock when the lines finally tighten up on a parachute partially open already! In the days before the full stow diaper, the lines were unstowed from the pack tray, which allowed for the potential of arms and legs to get tangled up in the unstowing lines (especially for a pilot making his first jump and not maintaining balance/stability on the relative airflow). The full stow diaper carries all of the line stows on it, so the lines unstow from the top down, and once the parachute is out of the container the the lines are well out of the reach of an unstable pilot. The opening speeds here are very important, as the drag from the opening parachute increases in square to the speed increase. My Pitts has a VNE of 203mph/176kt, which could easily cause damage to a parachute rated at only 150 kts. Higher speed parachute systems incorporate other staging devices to inhibit the opening of the parachute for a very short period of time while the parachute and user slow down; all to reduce the opening shock to an acceptable level. Altitude above sea level plays a part here as well, as parachutes tend to open faster/harder in thinner air (don't ask me why) and they land faster too. Landing a parachute may be a consideration here as well. While the cockpit may only have enough room for a 24' parachute, the 200 pound user may find extensive lower leg and back injuries a real possibility after a successful bailout, and our bones take longer to heal as we get older.... I manufacture, repair, repack and sell all kinds of parachute equipment for my business. Good luck on picking the 'right' system for you and your Pitts. Al MacDonald Flying High Manufacturing Inc. "ShawnD2112" wrote in message news:AnZDc.1369$Dq1.851@newsfe6-win... Was hoping to get a bit of expertise here. I'm in the market for an emergency bailout chute for flying in my Pitts S-1D. The top US contenders seem to be National and Softie but with no experience in the field, and parachutes not exactly being the kind of object you can try on for size in the shop, I don't really know what to look for and what to avoid. I'd appreciate any tips anyone out there could provide. Are there any European models that anyone has any experience with? Obviously comfort and space in the cockpit are major considerations. Thanks! Shawn |
#9
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"Al MacDonald" wrote in message news:vTgLc.46462$2i3.17796@clgrps12...
Shawn, I forgot something very important! Do NOT get in the habit of getting out of the plane without your parachute on, as it could cultivate a very bad habit (and make you look rather stupid in the obituary). Freely admitting that I unbuckle my chute and leave it in the plane (after landing...), are there any actual documented accounts of someone unbuckling their chute *before* bailing out? |
#10
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Doug,
While I don't know of any actuals, I can tell you this. My father was the CFI for a 104 squadron for several years. They all spent lots of time in the sim, as it was cheaper to fly than the real thing. Each year they would do a major ride, where things started going wrong. And more wrong, and more wrong. At some point the pilot decided to abandon ship, and the hot seat would not fire so he/she would have to get out manually. According to my father, some 95% of the pilots would undo all of the straps and get out with no parachute. I think this is partly because they were under a lot of stress and somewhat rattled, plus they were practicing what they had done for years every day..... undo everything and get out. We all preplan and practice our emergency procedures so we don't have to figure it out when under the gun, so it only seems logical that this be carried through with the parachute too. My $.02 ($.05 CDN) worth. al. "Doug Carter" wrote in message om... "Al MacDonald" wrote in message news:vTgLc.46462$2i3.17796@clgrps12... Shawn, I forgot something very important! Do NOT get in the habit of getting out of the plane without your parachute on, as it could cultivate a very bad habit (and make you look rather stupid in the obituary). Freely admitting that I unbuckle my chute and leave it in the plane (after landing...), are there any actual documented accounts of someone unbuckling their chute *before* bailing out? |
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