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#61
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I just have to get it off my chest.
"Don Pyeatt" wrote in :
Not so fast....this is not a yEnc thread. I just want someone to answer my question about news and email clients. Why is OE inferior to other clients? It is beginning to appear that no one can answer it. gdp Don It has been answered but you, my friend, just prefer not to accept the answers. |
#62
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I just have to get it off my chest.
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:03:00 +0930, "Dave Kearton"
wrote: Don Pyeatt wrote: If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole planet would have taken on these wonderful, free packages - but that hasn't happened. Let us reformulate: If the health bonuses were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole planet would have stopped smoking by now - but that hasn't happened. Catch my drift? I'm trying to get into a "which is better" argument per se, but OE is not, never has been, and never will be a full-blown newsreader, any more than WordPad is a true word processor. My orientation is more towards appropriate/legitimate arguments, and how to solve the problem. If, however, your needs are served by that application, knock yourself out. Just please don't try to tell me it's a newreader. Also, the approach of "argument by simplicity" falls apart upon examination, especially if one side gets to define simplicity as "what I'm used to." Heck, I was used to DesqView interrupt-driven multi-tasking under MS-DOS long before Win95 came along. Yet I was finally dragged -kicking and screaming- into Windows-world. You want simplicity? Fine, let's go back to TTY terminals and analog-coupled 300bps modems. THAT'S simple! Or text-only usenet readers/browsers like LYNX. THAT'S simple. I think I've outlined the two major challenges for binaries groups: individual posting, and bulk posting. I may be wrong (not having exhaustively tested every newsreader on the market) but they should have an option to disable yEnc encoding for uploads. I've already done that with Agent. That's step one. The other challenge is finding a bulk uploader as powerful and as inexpensive as Power Post v11b (yEnc). If there were a non-yEnc version available, I would switch to that in a heartbeat, just to keep the peace. Another analogy, possibly on topic, just occured to me. Supposedly Ernst Udet checked out the new Bf-109 Willy Messerchmidt was developing, then told the designer that once he added a second wing and lost the canopy he would have a great fighter. I would venture to suggest that, perhaps, the non-yEncers just don't get the whole "glass over the head" thing... Please note that I never have, and never will make claims as to yEnc's "superiority." It's there, and we have to deal with it. I did with a simple point upgrade to Agent. As Don originally said, YMMV. |
#63
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I just have to get it off my chest.
And the yEnc thumpers dont get the We dont want it, dont need it thing
either..... The yEnc'ers force their pages and pages of unreadable code down our throats even tho time and time again its been said that its not welcome here. Since you seem to be unable to answer Dons Question with a straight answer and just keep throwing analogy after analogy around....I come to your house and you dont smoke and Im a smoker, out of common courtesy, Im not gonna smoke in your house...... but that comes from those having conciences and able to be considerate of others...... Nuff said, if you want to post yEnc fine, your just wasting bandwidth to me and shall join the other yEncers in the kill file. "Casey Tompkins" wrote in message ... On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:03:00 +0930, "Dave Kearton" wrote: Don Pyeatt wrote: If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole planet would have taken on these wonderful, free packages - but that hasn't happened. Let us reformulate: If the health bonuses were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole planet would have stopped smoking by now - but that hasn't happened. Catch my drift? I'm trying to get into a "which is better" argument per se, but OE is not, never has been, and never will be a full-blown newsreader, any more than WordPad is a true word processor. My orientation is more towards appropriate/legitimate arguments, and how to solve the problem. If, however, your needs are served by that application, knock yourself out. Just please don't try to tell me it's a newreader. Also, the approach of "argument by simplicity" falls apart upon examination, especially if one side gets to define simplicity as "what I'm used to." Heck, I was used to DesqView interrupt-driven multi-tasking under MS-DOS long before Win95 came along. Yet I was finally dragged -kicking and screaming- into Windows-world. You want simplicity? Fine, let's go back to TTY terminals and analog-coupled 300bps modems. THAT'S simple! Or text-only usenet readers/browsers like LYNX. THAT'S simple. I think I've outlined the two major challenges for binaries groups: individual posting, and bulk posting. I may be wrong (not having exhaustively tested every newsreader on the market) but they should have an option to disable yEnc encoding for uploads. I've already done that with Agent. That's step one. The other challenge is finding a bulk uploader as powerful and as inexpensive as Power Post v11b (yEnc). If there were a non-yEnc version available, I would switch to that in a heartbeat, just to keep the peace. Another analogy, possibly on topic, just occured to me. Supposedly Ernst Udet checked out the new Bf-109 Willy Messerchmidt was developing, then told the designer that once he added a second wing and lost the canopy he would have a great fighter. I would venture to suggest that, perhaps, the non-yEncers just don't get the whole "glass over the head" thing... Please note that I never have, and never will make claims as to yEnc's "superiority." It's there, and we have to deal with it. I did with a simple point upgrade to Agent. As Don originally said, YMMV. |
#64
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I just have to get it off my chest.
"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:07:35 -0500, "Don Pyeatt" wrote: Hi, Casey ! I have been avoiding this yEnc/OE thread but after reading your post I thought you may perhaps be the one to answer my as-yet unanswered question: What will your agent do that OE will not, except of course decode yEnc without an add-on patch? I have formed the opinion after reading these hate-OE threads over the years that those who hate OE simply don't know how to use it. What say you? Without going into exhaustive detail, Don, that's like asking what MS Word can do, that Wordpad can't? You have the cart and the horse backwards. Both Wordpad and OE are targeted to very specific and narrow uses. OE is an email program with limited newsreading ability. Similarly, Wordpad may act as an elemental word processor. I can speak with some authority on this, as my first PC used CP/M, not MS-DOS, and I remember the dreaded EDLIN, the only text editor available to early versions of MS-DOS. It was a line-editor. That is, one could edit text one line at a time. You had to type commands along the lines of "edit line 3" and then you could perform primitive editing similar to command-line editing until WinXP. Then along (finally) comes WordPad, which is a freebie included with the latest Windows. Considered as a basic word processor (compared to the 80s stuff) it is excellent. WYSIWYG, different fonts on-screen, in-place editing on-screen, italics, boldface, etc, etc. After Valdocs that's exciting! But... Compared to a real modern word processor -or even a powerful text editor such as TextPad or EMACS, Wordpad is primitive. To put it another way, OE to a modern newsreader as MS Paint is to Adobe Photoshop. I don't hate OE per se, as an email utility. I loathe it as an example of how MicroSoft allowed it to become one of the world's worst vulnerability magnet. There are free programs which are head and shoulders above what MS produces for email, newsgroups, and the web. I've mentioned Agent already. The Mozilla Firefox brower and Mozilla Sunbird email client are the best of the best. If you want to see what's going to be added to the next edition of Internet Explorer, just check out what's current (or old {g}) in Firefox and Sunbird. The Mozilla products are more secure than equivalent MS products, more stable, more advanced, and one helluva lot cheaper. To get back to your original point, I know how to use OE; I just don't see the point; any more than I see the point of using WordPad as a word processor. (which reminds me: OpenOffice, anyone?) There are far more powerful freeware applications out there. OE is comparatively primitive, and a security nightmare. If I could rip it out by the roots from WinXP, I would do so in a heartbeat. I think my earlier analogy still holds: you can use a truck as a tractor, but that doesn't make it a good idea. OE is not a newsgroup reader. I'll also repeat my earlier statment: much of the argument can be avoided by posting via newgroup reader and not using yEnc. I have no problem doing that, just to keep the peace. Alas, the best freeware auto-poster is Power Post v11b, AKA Power Post v11b-yEnc. Are there any yEnc-hating hackers out there who would be willing to (ahhh...) "yEnc" that code out of the program to allow standard bulk posting? Please excuse the pun. Thanks, Casey. Unfortunately, after all the subjective comparisons you used, you have not answered my basic question. To repeat: Other than yEnc, "What will your agent do that OE will not?" This former CP/M and DOS user just wants a straight answer. Please be objective. Don |
#65
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I just have to get it off my chest.
"Clairbear" wrote in message ... "Don Pyeatt" wrote in : Not so fast....this is not a yEnc thread. I just want someone to answer my question about news and email clients. Why is OE inferior to other clients? It is beginning to appear that no one can answer it. gdp Don It has been answered but you, my friend, just prefer not to accept the answers. No, it has not. Just like you, others who try to answer the basic question just run and hide or, at best, throw up a smoke screen. Want to try again? Here it is: Other than yEnc, "What will your agent do that OE will not?" Waiting patiently, gdp |
#66
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I just have to get it off my chest.
"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message ... On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:03:00 +0930, "Dave Kearton" wrote: Don Pyeatt wrote: If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole planet would have taken on these wonderful, free packages - but that hasn't happened. Let us reformulate: If the health bonuses were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole planet would have stopped smoking by now - but that hasn't happened. Catch my drift? I'm trying to get into a "which is better" argument per se, but OE is not, never has been, and never will be a full-blown newsreader, any more than WordPad is a true word processor. My orientation is more towards appropriate/legitimate arguments, and how to solve the problem. If, however, your needs are served by that application, knock yourself out. Just please don't try to tell me it's a newreader. Also, the approach of "argument by simplicity" falls apart upon examination, especially if one side gets to define simplicity as "what I'm used to." Heck, I was used to DesqView interrupt-driven multi-tasking under MS-DOS long before Win95 came along. Yet I was finally dragged -kicking and screaming- into Windows-world. You want simplicity? Fine, let's go back to TTY terminals and analog-coupled 300bps modems. THAT'S simple! Or text-only usenet readers/browsers like LYNX. THAT'S simple. I think I've outlined the two major challenges for binaries groups: individual posting, and bulk posting. I may be wrong (not having exhaustively tested every newsreader on the market) but they should have an option to disable yEnc encoding for uploads. I've already done that with Agent. That's step one. The other challenge is finding a bulk uploader as powerful and as inexpensive as Power Post v11b (yEnc). If there were a non-yEnc version available, I would switch to that in a heartbeat, just to keep the peace. Another analogy, possibly on topic, just occured to me. Supposedly Ernst Udet checked out the new Bf-109 Willy Messerchmidt was developing, then told the designer that once he added a second wing and lost the canopy he would have a great fighter. I would venture to suggest that, perhaps, the non-yEncers just don't get the whole "glass over the head" thing... Please note that I never have, and never will make claims as to yEnc's "superiority." It's there, and we have to deal with it. I did with a simple point upgrade to Agent. As Don originally said, YMMV. No, I did not. What I said was, "Other than yEnc, what will your agent do that OE will not?" gdp |
#67
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I just have to get it off my chest.
Don Pyeatt wrote:
"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message ... On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:03:00 +0930, "Dave Kearton" wrote: Don Pyeatt wrote: If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole planet would have taken on these wonderful, free packages - but that hasn't happened. Let us reformulate: If the health bonuses were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole planet would have stopped smoking by now - but that hasn't happened. Catch my drift? I'm trying to get into a "which is better" argument per se, but OE is not, never has been, and never will be a full-blown newsreader, any more than WordPad is a true word processor. My orientation is more towards appropriate/legitimate arguments, and how to solve the problem. If, however, your needs are served by that application, knock yourself out. Just please don't try to tell me it's a newreader. Also, the approach of "argument by simplicity" falls apart upon examination, especially if one side gets to define simplicity as "what I'm used to." Heck, I was used to DesqView interrupt-driven multi-tasking under MS-DOS long before Win95 came along. Yet I was finally dragged -kicking and screaming- into Windows-world. You want simplicity? Fine, let's go back to TTY terminals and analog-coupled 300bps modems. THAT'S simple! Or text-only usenet readers/browsers like LYNX. THAT'S simple. I think I've outlined the two major challenges for binaries groups: individual posting, and bulk posting. I may be wrong (not having exhaustively tested every newsreader on the market) but they should have an option to disable yEnc encoding for uploads. I've already done that with Agent. That's step one. The other challenge is finding a bulk uploader as powerful and as inexpensive as Power Post v11b (yEnc). If there were a non-yEnc version available, I would switch to that in a heartbeat, just to keep the peace. Another analogy, possibly on topic, just occured to me. Supposedly Ernst Udet checked out the new Bf-109 Willy Messerchmidt was developing, then told the designer that once he added a second wing and lost the canopy he would have a great fighter. I would venture to suggest that, perhaps, the non-yEncers just don't get the whole "glass over the head" thing... Please note that I never have, and never will make claims as to yEnc's "superiority." It's there, and we have to deal with it. I did with a simple point upgrade to Agent. As Don originally said, YMMV. No, I did not. What I said was, "Other than yEnc, what will your agent do that OE will not?" gdp His newsreader is causing problems with attributions. -- Cheers Dave Kearton |
#68
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I just have to get it off my chest.
Other than yEnc, "What will your agent do that OE will not?" Waiting patiently, gdp I think the answer has been given - Using a newsreader other than OE makes them feel superior, I guess. As for OE not being a newsreader - well, I am reading news on it. |
#69
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I just have to get it off my chest.
"Don Pyeatt" wrote in message ... "Casey Tompkins" wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:07:35 -0500, "Don Pyeatt" wrote: Why don't you people start a NEW newsgroup "alt.binaries.pictures.yEnc is better.No it isn't.Yes it is", then everyone can move over there and continue to club this thread into the ground. |
#70
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I just have to get it off my chest.
"Don Pyeatt" wrote in :
"Clairbear" wrote in message ... "Don Pyeatt" wrote in : Not so fast....this is not a yEnc thread. I just want someone to answer my question about news and email clients. Why is OE inferior to other clients? It is beginning to appear that no one can answer it. gdp Don It has been answered but you, my friend, just prefer not to accept the answers. No, it has not. Just like you, others who try to answer the basic question just run and hide or, at best, throw up a smoke screen. Want to try again? Here it is: Other than yEnc, "What will your agent do that OE will not?" Waiting patiently, gdp Xnews is easier, faster, more capable and more usable |
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