Instrument Approaches and procedure turns....

I'm reviewing the approach plates for my Instrument lesson this coming
Thursday (which I just realized is September 11, of all things..). I've
found it useful to 'practice' approaches using OnTop flight sim before my
lessons, seems to give me more 'bang for the buck'.

Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should be
obvious), I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it actually is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly up the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the location
of the procedure turn sits?

Thanks in advance!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com

Gotta go along with Dave. Don't fall into the trap of flying outbound a
certain number of minutes...the changing wind makes that a poor choice. Go
out until you are beneath the glideslope and, as Dave says, far enough so
that you have time to get squared away (and get a handle on the wind at PT
altitude...which is a clue, but not the answer, to the wind going downhill).

Bob Gardner

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. ..
I'm reviewing the approach plates for my Instrument lesson this coming
Thursday (which I just realized is September 11, of all things..). I've
found it useful to 'practice' approaches using OnTop flight sim before my
lessons, seems to give me more 'bang for the buck'.

Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should be
obvious), I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it actually is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly up
the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the location
of the procedure turn sits?

Thanks in advance!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com

Bob, sorry to ask another different question, but I saw your communication
software in my local airport shop and wanted to know if it covers IFR
communication practice as well as the VFR (which I already have)? If so, it
is quite a bargain, 'cause another software company charges separate price
for each version.

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Gotta go along with Dave. Don't fall into the trap of flying outbound a
certain number of minutes...the changing wind makes that a poor choice. Go
out until you are beneath the glideslope and, as Dave says, far enough so
that you have time to get squared away (and get a handle on the wind at PT
altitude...which is a clue, but not the answer, to the wind going
downhill).

Bob Gardner

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. ..
I'm reviewing the approach plates for my Instrument lesson this coming
Thursday (which I just realized is September 11, of all things..). I've
found it useful to 'practice' approaches using OnTop flight sim before
my
lessons, seems to give me more 'bang for the buck'.

Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should be
obvious), I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it actually
is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly up
the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the
location
of the procedure turn sits?

Thanks in advance!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com

Yes, it does.

Bob

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
m...
Bob, sorry to ask another different question, but I saw your communication
software in my local airport shop and wanted to know if it covers IFR
communication practice as well as the VFR (which I already have)? If so,
it
is quite a bargain, 'cause another software company charges separate price
for each version.

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Gotta go along with Dave. Don't fall into the trap of flying outbound a
certain number of minutes...the changing wind makes that a poor choice.
Go
out until you are beneath the glideslope and, as Dave says, far enough
so
that you have time to get squared away (and get a handle on the wind at
PT
altitude...which is a clue, but not the answer, to the wind going
downhill).

Bob Gardner

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. ..
I'm reviewing the approach plates for my Instrument lesson this coming
Thursday (which I just realized is September 11, of all things..).
I've
found it useful to 'practice' approaches using OnTop flight sim
before
my
lessons, seems to give me more 'bang for the buck'.

Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should
be
obvious), I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville
Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it
actually
is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly
up
the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the
location
of the procedure turn sits?

Thanks in advance!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com

Bob Gardner wrote:

Gotta go along with Dave. Don't fall into the trap of flying outbound a
certain number of minutes...the changing wind makes that a poor choice. Go
out until you are beneath the glideslope and, as Dave says, far enough so
that you have time to get squared away (and get a handle on the wind at PT
altitude...which is a clue, but not the answer, to the wind going downhill).


By now every serious instrument pilot should have GPS on-board. If not an IFR
unit, then at least a good hand-held. With that a consistant *distance* from
the PT fix outbound at which to begin the turn brings it all into the 21st
Century.

And, of course, RNAV(GPS) procedures themselves never have a procedure turn. If
a course-reversal initial approach segment is required in the design, it will
always be a holding pattern reversal.

With the proper use of modern avionics timing of any phase of an instrument
procedure should be a thing of the past.

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote
Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should be
obvious)

It should be but you're a student so it's OK

I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it actually is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly up the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the location
of the procedure turn sits?

Well, assuming you arrived at the IAF (NALLS intersection) along one
of the charted feeder routes (from SANTY intersection or SNS VOR) you
turn outbound (South) on the localizer, fly a minute or so (longer if
you have a headwind), and then do the procedure turn. The only
requirement is that you complete the course reversal (in whatever way
seems best to you and keeps you inside the protected area) and get
established inbound before crossing NALLS.

Now for the real question - why in the world is DME required for this
approach?

Michael

Michael wrote:
"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote

Anyway (I'm sorry, in advance, if I'm am asking something that should be
obvious)


It should be but you're a student so it's OK


I'm looking at the LOC Rwy 2 approach to Watsonville Municipal
(California). There is a procedure turn that sits just before the
'entrance' into the localizer. How does one identify where it actually is
(the beginning of the procedure turn, that is)? Does one simply fly up the
localizer and when the localizer signal is lost THAT is where the location
of the procedure turn sits?


Well, assuming you arrived at the IAF (NALLS intersection) along one
of the charted feeder routes (from SANTY intersection or SNS VOR) you
turn outbound (South) on the localizer, fly a minute or so (longer if
you have a headwind), and then do the procedure turn. The only
requirement is that you complete the course reversal (in whatever way
seems best to you and keeps you inside the protected area) and get
established inbound before crossing NALLS.

Now for the real question - why in the world is DME required for this
approach?

Michael

The July IFR magazine has an article featuring that approach. The
IFR staff couldn't figure out why DME was required so they called
the FAA. They didn't know either, and said they will fix the chart.

Tom Pappano, PP-ASEL-IA

The July IFR magazine has an article featuring that approach. The
IFR staff couldn't figure out why DME was required so they called
the FAA. They didn't know either, and said they will fix the chart.

Tom Pappano, PP-ASEL-IA

Nor could I,,,, thanks for the clarification!!!!

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com

(Michael) writes:

Now for the real question - why in the world is DME required for this
approach?

To positively identify NALLS. You get false LOC lobes coming from
the south.

-jav

"Javier Henderson" wrote in message ...
(Michael) writes:

Now for the real question - why in the world is DME required for this
approach?

To positively identify NALLS. You get false LOC lobes coming from
the south.

Then isn't NALLS is charted wrong.