A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Piloting
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 12th 06, 07:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
houstondan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?

rather than hijack a perfectly good arcane science thread; i'll start a
new one 'cause the core question is a darn good one.

hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you
wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your
take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're
inside the milk bottle.

gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and
gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes.

not mountainous but you ain't in kansas either todo...whatcha gunna
do??

really.

dan

  #2  
Old November 12th 06, 07:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?

houstondan writes:

gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and
gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes.


GPS is reliable for this type of issue, even without WAAS. Just don't
rely on it to determine your altitude.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
  #3  
Old November 12th 06, 07:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
houstondan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?

what part of "pilots only" do you not understand? you have your thread
and your opinion has been heard. now go away. many real pilots will not
participate if you're in the thread and i'm really trying to talk to
them.

dan
Mxsmanic wrote:
houstondan writes:

gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and
gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes.


GPS is reliable for this type of issue, even without WAAS. Just don't
rely on it to determine your altitude.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.


  #4  
Old November 12th 06, 07:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Aluckyguess
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 276
Default pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?


Why is there only 10 minutes of fuel on board?


  #5  
Old November 12th 06, 08:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
d&tm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 92
Default pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?


"houstondan" wrote in message
oups.com...
rather than hijack a perfectly good arcane science thread; i'll start a
new one 'cause the core question is a darn good one.

hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you
wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your
take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're
inside the milk bottle.

gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and
gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes.

not mountainous but you ain't in kansas either todo...whatcha gunna
do??
dan

The engineers answer - it depends.answer below assumes I am using my little
hand held gps with not altitude info.
First I would look at my altimeter
If the gps tells me where i am , I would look at the chart I am carrying and
find out what the terrain is like and minimum safe altitude. I would
descend to that altitude and hope to get out of the soup. at the same time
I would be heading in the direction of the best possible landing area (
using rate 1 turn if required). I would also be flying at the precautionary
speed wtih 20 degrees of flaps ( in my warrior).
If I had ample fuel my answer would be very different. I would most
probably try to climb above it and look for a hole. I would also be using
whatever assistance I could get on the radio from ATC , other aircraft etc
to establish what the cloud situation is. But with limited fuel , I just
want to get down with some power to play with.
terry


  #6  
Old November 12th 06, 08:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?

houstondan writes:

what part of "pilots only" do you not understand?


I understand it, but you are not the master of this newsgroup, and if
it pleases me to reply, I will.

many real pilots will not
participate if you're in the thread and i'm really trying to talk to
them.


Any real pilot who refuses to participate solely because of my
participation is not only a pilot but also a petulant little boy, and
since that would not bode well for the quality of his replies, it may
be just as well if he abstains.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
  #7  
Old November 12th 06, 08:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Andrew Sarangan[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?

houstondan wrote:
rather than hijack a perfectly good arcane science thread; i'll start a
new one 'cause the core question is a darn good one.

hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you
wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your
take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're
inside the milk bottle.

gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and
gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes.

not mountainous but you ain't in kansas either todo...whatcha gunna
do??

really.

dan


Reduce power to best endurance, call ATC, explain your predicament,
declare an emergency and request vectors to the nearest airport and
prepare for a crash landing on the way. If you are extremely lucky you
will make it to the airport and only have the FAA to deal with. If you
are very lucky, your engine will quit over friendly terrain and you
will land in an open field with no injuries except damage to the
airplane. If you are somewhat lucky you will crash into trees but will
survive with injuries. If you are unlucky, you will not make it out
alive.

  #8  
Old November 12th 06, 08:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 838
Default pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?

houstondan wrote:

hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you
wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your
take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're
inside the milk bottle.

gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and
gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes.

not mountainous but you ain't in kansas either todo...whatcha gunna
do??


Neither GPS or altimeter since this would be one of the least concerns
in saving your bacon.

You already don't know your "exact" AGL from your landing point, so
other then an approximation from your GPS, first order of priority is
to keep the shiny side up.

Attitude indicator (Aviate or fly the plane)
Some people may say best glide speed, but this really depends on what
you think you will come into after breaking out. If the best glide
speed takes you into mountains, then that may not the best thing to do.
(navigate)
If able, declare emergency 121.5 or ATC if already in contact
(communicate)

Any prayer you can come up with for a good outcome since more then
likely spatial disorientation will be a major player since you said you
were VFR only.

After breaking out of the clouds (assuming low ceilings), emergency
checklist, including opening cabin door before landing.

If high ceilings, you have a little more time to select your emergency
landing site, set up for landing, slowest speed possible, emergency
check list for landing.

Your scenario really has too many variables that were not defined to
really nail down procedures since winds / clouds and human physiology
really comes into play so the above are generalizations that I would do
if I was in the scenario described.

Allen

  #9  
Old November 12th 06, 08:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Brett Meares
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?


Dan: First and foremost I would fess up and declare an emergency. A
declaration of "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday" on Guard Frequency coupled with a
7700 Squawk will get EVERYONE'S attention immediately. Stick with this for
a few minutes trying to establish contact. DO NOT change frequencies, make
the world come to you. If the autopilot is functioning continue to let it
do the flying. After establishing contact with ATC let them bring Flight
service into the mix and try to determine bases via PIREPS and forecasts.
Again, don't get into changing frequencies, let everyone else come to you.
Once you look down and start fiddling with stuff you run the risk of vertigo
and that can ruin your day. Assuming there is room under the overcast
(Confirmed via Flight Watch / Center / Etc...,) reduce power and let the
autopilot continue flying in the descent until you break out underneath.
Then just find a smooth spot.
Assuming you are in an area without radar coverage I would still stay
with the above plan. The high altitude traffic will be able to hear you
over a very large footprint and center could triangulate your location
accurately enough for a rough report of bases. The high altitude guys will
also have onboard capabilities relative to base reports / forecasts. If
your autopilot is chugging along you could also relay a position report to
center via a high altitude contact.
Now lets assume that it's truly a low day with 200 OC and you couldn't
contact center. I would do everything the same while enlisting the help
from the high altitude guys to find the smoothest spot for landing and also
make sure that support would be immediately dispatched. Relative to smooth
spots my first thought would be to try for a body of water strait ahead. If
the autopilot could do the turn I would go as far as a standard rate
turning descent until you break out underneath while over water (no fear of
hitting obstructions). If your autopilot is a wing leveler I wouldn't think
the circling descent would be worth the risk. If the whole area is
relatively inhospitable I would try to get as close to civilization as
possible to make the rescue easier.
In summary I think the emergency declaration on Guard is key; it brings
a very large area of aviation to your aid immediately. Even if you couldn't
get Center I would guess a 50 - 100 mile radius for the high altitude
population. Just remember, forget the Ego and fess-up. Brett


"houstondan" wrote in message
oups.com...
rather than hijack a perfectly good arcane science thread; i'll start a
new one 'cause the core question is a darn good one.

hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you
wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your
take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're
inside the milk bottle.

gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and
gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes.

not mountainous but you ain't in kansas either todo...whatcha gunna
do??

really.

dan



  #10  
Old November 12th 06, 08:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Logajan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,958
Default pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?

"houstondan" wrote:
hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you
wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your
take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're
inside the milk bottle.

gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and
gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes.

not mountainous but you ain't in kansas either todo...whatcha gunna
do??


Cut power and deploy the ballistic parachute.

;-)
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AOPA Stall/Spin Study -- Stowell's Review (8,000 words) Rich Stowell Aerobatics 28 January 2nd 09 03:26 PM
Washington DC airspace closing for good? tony roberts Piloting 153 August 11th 05 12:56 AM
FAA Mandatory Pilot Retirement Rule Challenged Larry Dighera Piloting 0 March 20th 05 09:56 PM
The allure of the skies beckons wannabe pilots. N9NWO Piloting 0 March 8th 05 09:58 PM
Older Pilots and Safety Bob Johnson Soaring 5 May 21st 04 01:08 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.