Dumb Reg question

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:34:17 GMT, Jose
wrote:

d. Aircraft classified as "high altitude" (service ceiling above
25,000' MSL) need an .....

New one on me. If the airplane is capable of high altitude, you need an
endorsement even if you only ground-hop it? Got a reg # I could look up?

Perhaps 61.31(g)?

"(g) Additional training required for operating pressurized aircraft
capable of operating at high altitudes. (1) Except as provided in
paragraph (g)(3) of this section, no person may act as pilot in
command of a pressurized aircraft (an aircraft that has a service
ceiling or maximum operating altitude, whichever is lower, above
25,000 feet MSL), unless that person has received and logged ground
training from an authorized instructor and obtained an endorsement in
the person's logbook or training record from an authorized instructor
who certifies the person has satisfactorily accomplished the ground
training."

A strict reading of "operating pressurized aircraft capable" would not
be limiting to in-flight operation of said aircraft.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:28:16 GMT, Jose
wrote:

d. Aircraft classified as "high altitude" (service ceiling above 25,000' MSL) need an .....


New one on me. If the airplane is capable of high altitude, you need an endorsement even if you only ground-hop it? Got a reg # I could look up?

Never mind, I found it. "pressurized".

Hmm... Missed that too, but are there many (any?) non-pressurized
airframes that have service ceilings above FL250?

Slick wrote:
I've only ever flown Cessna products and I've come across an area I'm not
sure about. I have my private and I have flow 150/2 and 172's since I
starting my training. Now I might partner up with a guy in a Tomahawk next
weekend for a tour across the state. I don't have any formal training in
any
Piper products, will I be allowed to log any stick time?

For the time that you are the "sole manipulator of the controls", you can
log PIC, your friend can not log PIC (or SIC) even though he presumably is
acting as PIC.


I don't recall
exactly how the regs layout type certification. Do I have to be signed off
and have logged instruction to be PIC in the Tomahawk?

No.


Also if I only had
time in a 150, would I have to have instruction in a 152 before I could
log
PIC?

No, but it's probably a good idea.


One last question, If I fly simulated instrument with a safety pilot, does
the safety pilot have to sign my logbook? Thanks to everyone for your help
and response.

No. BTW: If you are (acting as) PIC, then you log PIC, your friend logs
SIC. If your friend is (acting as) PIC, you both log PIC.

Hilton

ok.. so I left the word "log" out

"Jose" wrote in message
m...
any time you are flying with hands on stick, with or without the hood,
you are PIC, any time you are under the hood, he may log PIC (acting pic)
even though he may never touch the stick.

Not quite.

You -are- PIC when you are the final authority on the conduct of the
flight (and are so qualified). You -may- -log- PIC if you are
appropriately rated and are sole manipulator (your hands unaided on the
stick).

Yes, two people can -log- PIC, but only one can -be- PIC.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Slick" wrote in message ...
I've only ever flown Cessna products and I've come across an area I'm not
sure about. I have my private and I have flow 150/2 and 172's since I
starting my training. Now I might partner up with a guy in a Tomahawk next
weekend for a tour across the state. I don't have any formal training in
any
Piper products, will I be allowed to log any stick time? I don't recall
exactly how the regs layout type certification. Do I have to be signed off
and have logged instruction to be PIC in the Tomahawk? Also if I only had
time in a 150, would I have to have instruction in a 152 before I could
log
PIC?

One last question, If I fly simulated instrument with a safety pilot, does
the safety pilot have to sign my logbook? Thanks to everyone for your help
and response.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:09:33 -0700, "BTIZ"
wrote in Z4Oce.113$fI.16@fed1read05::

No Dumb Questions.. just hard to interpret Regs..

You are qualified for Airplane Single Engine Land... a Tomahawk is an
Airplane Single Engine Land..

With the exception of those aircraft that require the pilot to have a
Type Rating, airmen holding a private ASEL certificate may act as PIC
of any aircraft certified in that category and class.

any time you have hands on stick.. that is PIC..

All time spent as sole manipulator of the controls is logable as PIC
time. PIC time is also logable by the pilot who is acting as the
responsible PIC, IINM.

as far as the FAA is concerned.. you don't need a specific sign off..

Other than for those aircraft that require a Type Rating.

the insurance companies or rental FBO may have other ideas... specific make
and model sign offs are insurance company requirements..

If you are under the hood and have a rated pilot acting as a safety pilot,
then all you need is his name..

any time you are flying with hands on stick, with or without the hood, you
are PIC, any time you are under the hood, he may log PIC (acting pic) even
though he may never touch the stick.

I believe the safety pilot usually logs SIC time in that situation,
but it would depend on who the pilots agreed would be responsible for
the flight.

I copied this out of a magazine several years ago when I was often
flying with another pilot:


Cockpit Resource Management

CRM is the effective use of all resources - hardware,
software, leadership, and humanware - to achieve safe and
efficient flight operation.

Don't divide duties as they are on most airlines. There, the
pilot becomes too dependent on a copilot, because the pilot simply
flys the aircraft, while the copilot does everything else -
radios, navigation, checklists, and backing up the pilot as to
proper altitudes and headings.

The CRM philosophy puts the onus on the pilot for
communications, checklists, and decision making. Decisions are
based on the concerns of the less comfortable pilot. The copilot
handles navigation, cross-checks the pilot's communication and
navigation frequencies for an instrument approach, and assures
that the altitude requirements are met at the final approach fix
and at minimums. The copilot still has plenty to do, managing the
aircraft's loran, RNAV radio, or handheld GPS moving map display
that is used as a backup. In addition, the copilot scans for
other traffic, keeps a running check on fields in which to land -
just in case - and keeps track of the nearest airport. The
copilot knows s/he is to support and backup the pilot and offer
help in emergency situations.

Pre-takeoff briefing is important for any flight; it can be
abbreviated, however, when another pilot is aboard. It can be as
simple as thinking out loud. If you expect the other pilot to
help with the flight, say so before takeoff. Spend several
minutes before the flight explaining to the non-pilot passenger
how to control the aircraft and how to communicate. Once in the
air, spend a few minutes letting the passenger fly. It is fun for
the passenger and gives the pilot another resource to use in case
of a medical emergency.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:34:17 GMT, Jose
wrote in ::

Got a reg # I could look up?


http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...0.1.3.10.4.7.2
§ 91.1083 Crewmember emergency training

That doesn't happen to be true. Care to quote your FAR reference for two
people logging PIC at the same time?

Jim





You -are- PIC when you are the final authority on the conduct of the
flight (and are so qualified). You -may- -log- PIC if you are
appropriately rated and are sole manipulator (your hands unaided on the
stick).

Yes, two people can -log- PIC, but only one can -be- PIC.

What the hell is wrong with the reg that I referenced in my original post?

Jim
\


New one on me. If the airplane is capable of high altitude, you need an
endorsement even if you only ground-hop it? Got a reg # I could look up?

You left out and inserted a potful more that was absolutel garbage.

Jim




"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:wZTce.164$fI.40@fed1read05...
ok.. so I left the word "log" out

RST Engineering wrote:
That doesn't happen to be true. Care to quote your FAR reference for
two
people logging PIC at the same time?

There's an article on the AOPA web site (accessible to members only, I
believe) that covers this topic:

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/topics/pic.html

FAR 61.51(e) describes who can log PIC time. In the case of a
simulated instrument flight, both the pilot under-the-hood (sole
manipulator of the controls) and the safety pilot (required crewmember
on a flight requiring more than one pilot, such as a simulated
instrument flight) can log PIC at the same time.

Charles.
-N8385U