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#21
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That is ABSOLUTELY false. Did you really READ 61.51(e) or did you simply
parrot somebody that you didn't check for accuracy? 61.51 lists a whole LOT of folks that can log PIC time. Your scenario isn't among them. Suggest that you READ rather than QUOTE. Jim FAR 61.51(e) describes who can log PIC time. In the case of a simulated instrument flight, both the pilot under-the-hood (sole manipulator of the controls) and the safety pilot (required crewmember on a flight requiring more than one pilot, such as a simulated instrument flight) can log PIC at the same time. Charles. -N8385U |
#22
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"BTIZ" wrote in message news:Z4Oce.113$fI.16@fed1read05... No Dumb Questions.. just hard to interpret Regs.. Nothing difficult at all. You simply need to READ them. You are qualified for Airplane Single Engine Land... a Tomahawk is an Airplane Single Engine Land.. And unless the Traumahawk is covered by one of the six execeptions of the regulations, you are good to go. HOWEVER, it is clever to prove to yourself that you don't fall into one of the exceptions. any time you have hands on stick.. that is PIC.. That is absolutely not true. If I ask my kid to hold onto the wheel while I find the extra batteries, that does NOT make her the PIC. PIC is not only a state of mind, it is a legal definition. If you are a certificated pilot and I ask you to fly along with me as the PIC, I can ask you to fly the airplane from Sacramento to Salt Lake while I sleep and I am still the PIC. No matter that you flew the whole route, I am the PIC and am responsible for the flight. When the fit hits the shan, the determination will be made as to who was the PIC. It is NOT necessarily the person with their hands on the controls. If you are under the hood and have a rated pilot acting as a safety pilot, then all you need is his name.. I'm sure my CFI-I Betty wouldn't appreciate that comment. any time you are flying with hands on stick, with or without the hood, you are PIC, Absolutely not true, as noted above. any time you are under the hood, he may log PIC (acting pic) even though he may never touch the stick. Absolutely not true. Jim |
#23
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FAR61.51(e) Logging of Pilot in Command Time
61.51(e)(1)(ii) except for recreational pilot, who is ACTING as PIC of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certificate of the aircraft OR THE REGULATIONS UNDER WHICH THE FLIGHT IS CONDUCTED. with the scenario given... pilot one is under the hood, manipulating the controls and logs PIC under 61.51(e)(1)(i).. sole manipulator 91.109(b) requires an appropriately rated safety pilot.... the regulation under which the flight is conducted... therefore the flight requires two pilots. and pilot two is ACTING PIC under 61.51(e)(1)(ii)... My remarks : The agreement of ACTING PIC and ACTUAL PIC should be made in advance between the two pilots... that such time that Pilot 1 is under the hood, then Pilot 2 is ACTING PIC and makes decisions for safety.. from ground.. from other traffic.. and any ATC requirements as required such as reporting visual checkpoints or remaining clear of certain airspace. BT "RST Engineering" wrote in message ... That is ABSOLUTELY false. Did you really READ 61.51(e) or did you simply parrot somebody that you didn't check for accuracy? 61.51 lists a whole LOT of folks that can log PIC time. Your scenario isn't among them. Suggest that you READ rather than QUOTE. Jim FAR 61.51(e) describes who can log PIC time. In the case of a simulated instrument flight, both the pilot under-the-hood (sole manipulator of the controls) and the safety pilot (required crewmember on a flight requiring more than one pilot, such as a simulated instrument flight) can log PIC at the same time. Charles. -N8385U |
#24
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except for the fact that you referenced it wrong..
61.31(g) Additional training required for operating PRESSURIZED AIRCRAFT capable of operating at high altitudes.. It is not a "high altitude" endorsement.. it is a Pressurized Aircraft endorsement BT "RST Engineering" wrote in message ... What the hell is wrong with the reg that I referenced in my original post? Jim \ New one on me. If the airplane is capable of high altitude, you need an endorsement even if you only ground-hop it? Got a reg # I could look up? |
#25
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point of fact.. a few of the aircraft I fly .. or have flown in the past..
are capable of flight above 25,000ft.. and they are not pressurized... so a "pressurized aircraft" endorsement is not required... and there is no endorsement required for flying unpressurized above FL250.. and before you get your shorts in a twist.. I have altitude chamber training, and I have pressure breathing equipment and training BT "BTIZ" wrote in message news:NIYce.387$fI.10@fed1read05... FAR61.51(e) Logging of Pilot in Command Time 61.51(e)(1)(ii) except for recreational pilot, who is ACTING as PIC of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certificate of the aircraft OR THE REGULATIONS UNDER WHICH THE FLIGHT IS CONDUCTED. with the scenario given... pilot one is under the hood, manipulating the controls and logs PIC under 61.51(e)(1)(i).. sole manipulator 91.109(b) requires an appropriately rated safety pilot.... the regulation under which the flight is conducted... therefore the flight requires two pilots. and pilot two is ACTING PIC under 61.51(e)(1)(ii)... My remarks : The agreement of ACTING PIC and ACTUAL PIC should be made in advance between the two pilots... that such time that Pilot 1 is under the hood, then Pilot 2 is ACTING PIC and makes decisions for safety.. from ground.. from other traffic.. and any ATC requirements as required such as reporting visual checkpoints or remaining clear of certain airspace. BT "RST Engineering" wrote in message ... That is ABSOLUTELY false. Did you really READ 61.51(e) or did you simply parrot somebody that you didn't check for accuracy? 61.51 lists a whole LOT of folks that can log PIC time. Your scenario isn't among them. Suggest that you READ rather than QUOTE. Jim FAR 61.51(e) describes who can log PIC time. In the case of a simulated instrument flight, both the pilot under-the-hood (sole manipulator of the controls) and the safety pilot (required crewmember on a flight requiring more than one pilot, such as a simulated instrument flight) can log PIC at the same time. Charles. -N8385U |
#26
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If you are able to be a PIC in a Airplane Single Engine Land, then you
can fly a Tomahawk and be/log PIC. If you are "current" then you can carry passengers. The FAA does not have restrictions on being trained in one plane, then flying another. I'm sure if you bent or broke the plane, they could say you were careless and reckless, but they don't explicitly require a checkout in every type you are gonna fly. Wether the INSURANCE company will cover you (without having any instruction in type) is another matter. Most every place that I have flown at (rented from..) requires a checkout in every major type of plane they have for you to rent planes in those types... For instance.. the high wing Cessna's... I could check out in their Arrow and fly all their cherokee airframes.. I could likewise check out in the 182 and fly all their cessna's. (the above two examples assume you have your one-time complex and High Performance endorsements) Dave Slick wrote: I've only ever flown Cessna products and I've come across an area I'm not sure about. I have my private and I have flow 150/2 and 172's since I starting my training. Now I might partner up with a guy in a Tomahawk next weekend for a tour across the state. I don't have any formal training in any Piper products, will I be allowed to log any stick time? I don't recall exactly how the regs layout type certification. Do I have to be signed off and have logged instruction to be PIC in the Tomahawk? Also if I only had time in a 150, would I have to have instruction in a 152 before I could log PIC? One last question, If I fly simulated instrument with a safety pilot, does the safety pilot have to sign my logbook? Thanks to everyone for your help and response. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#27
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"RST Engineering" wrote in message ... "BTIZ" wrote in message news:Z4Oce.113$fI.16@fed1read05... No Dumb Questions.. just hard to interpret Regs.. Nothing difficult at all. You simply need to READ them. Maybe you should read them... You are qualified for Airplane Single Engine Land... a Tomahawk is an Airplane Single Engine Land.. And unless the Traumahawk is covered by one of the six execeptions of the regulations, you are good to go. HOWEVER, it is clever to prove to yourself that you don't fall into one of the exceptions. I guess you don't know what a Tomahawk is but what 6 exceptions do you refer to? any time you have hands on stick.. that is PIC.. That is absolutely not true. If I ask my kid to hold onto the wheel while I find the extra batteries, that does NOT make her the PIC. PIC is not only a state of mind, it is a legal definition. If you are a certificated pilot and I ask you to fly along with me as the PIC, I can ask you to fly the airplane from Sacramento to Salt Lake while I sleep and I am still the PIC. No matter that you flew the whole route, I am the PIC and am responsible for the flight. When the fit hits the shan, the determination will be made as to who was the PIC. It is NOT necessarily the person with their hands on the controls. please re read 61.51(e)(1)(i).. sole manipulator in an aircraft that he is rated in.. may log PIC.. even if you think he is not ACTING PIC.. because you, the PIC, is sleeping and think you are in charge. If you are under the hood and have a rated pilot acting as a safety pilot, then all you need is his name.. I'm sure my CFI-I Betty wouldn't appreciate that comment. generic "his",, get real.. any time you are flying with hands on stick, with or without the hood, you are PIC, Absolutely not true, as noted above. re read 61.51(e)(1)(i) as noted above... any time you are under the hood, he may log PIC (acting pic) even though he may never touch the stick. Absolutely not true. re read 61.51(e)(1)(ii) as reported in another post... Jim BT |
#28
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Nope. Read the section on Second In Command again. BZZZT. Jim 91.109(b) requires an appropriately rated safety pilot.... the regulation under which the flight is conducted... therefore the flight requires two pilots. and pilot two is ACTING PIC under 61.51(e)(1)(ii)... |
#29
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Sonny, I was altitude rated while you were still in liquid form.
Jim and before you get your shorts in a twist.. I have altitude chamber training, and I have pressure breathing equipment and training |
#30
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BTIZ wrote: If you are under the hood and have a rated pilot acting as a safety pilot, then all you need is his name.. any time you are flying with hands on stick, with or without the hood, you are PIC, any time you are under the hood, he may log PIC (acting pic) even though he may never touch the stick. BT This is a NIT-pick but its an IMPORTANT one.. The Safety pilot is considered a required crew-member and under that role is considered Second In Command or SIC. So he can log it as SIC. If the pilot-flying (hood pilot) AND the Safety Pilot BOTH agree that the Safety Pilot "IS" the "Pilot in Command" for the period the pilot-flying is under the hood, THEN the safety pilot can log it as PIC. You need to agree beforehand. This is usually not of consequence UNTIL or UNLESS something goes wrong: you break or bend something, the plane busts airspace, a near-midair occurs and is reported.. etc.. That can expose the Safety Pilot to accountability as the PIC. Reality is.. the hood pilot and the safety pilot both log and claim PIC.. just understand what the implications are when you do it. Dave |
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