Wow, C150 = Time Saver = Awesome 3 Days.

In article .com,
says...


Hi Steve,

Thats cool.
Just a question or two.
How do you make those times?

My plane has a about the same speed as a C150.
If I compare a 4 hr drive I need a least about 3 hrs to do the same
journey by plane if the clock starts ticking the moment I close the
door behind me.
The airport is just 10 min. away, pre-flight the plane etc. 30 min.,
1.5 hrs for the flight, 20 min. after I'm landed and then I'm only at
another airport.
And that is probably not my final destination, so I need a taxi for the
last leg.


Good point. Many of the planes we fly today were designed, if not built,
back in the '50's and early '60's. At that time few interstate highways
existed, and rural routes and other highways were frequently two-lane
roads with lots of dangerouis intersections. A long road trip would
frequently see 35MPH average speeds, and some unpaved sections were not
uncommon in many parts of the US. So a 200-mile trip would be 5 to 6
hours by car, and under 2 hours in a C-150.

Today, you frequently average close to 60MPH in a car, and you can
almots always make 50 average, so the same trip takes only 3 to 4 hours
in the car, and still close to 2 in a C-150, with a C-172 not that much
better. Factor in the fact that you have you car to tool around once you
get there, and it really puts a damper on utility for that category of
aircraft. Oh, and - I didn't even mention cost - or weather . . .

G Faris

How do you manage it?

-Kees.

It's called mountain Ranges!!! C150 goes over them Car goes around them look
it up map quest it!

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Steve,

Thats cool.
Just a question or two.
How do you make those times?

My plane has a about the same speed as a C150.
If I compare a 4 hr drive I need a least about 3 hrs to do the same
journey by plane if the clock starts ticking the moment I close the
door behind me.
The airport is just 10 min. away, pre-flight the plane etc. 30 min.,
1.5 hrs for the flight, 20 min. after I'm landed and then I'm only at
another airport.
And that is probably not my final destination, so I need a taxi for the
last leg.

How do you manage it?

-Kees.

Ah, that figures.
Me being a true flatlander, I was not immediately aware of the
possibility of those landscape features ;-)

-Kees

Sounds like fun!
I was recently (two weeks ago) on an engineering job outside of Paris France
(180nm SW of Paris). My programmer was arriving from Los Angeles on Friday
morning, and we had to get him to the site in time to meet with the
contractors before they all took off for the weekend. I could drive up to get
him, but as you say this would have been 4 hours each way - tiring to the
point of being dangerous, and not exactly optimal use of my time. Train
schedules were not cooperating, despite the excellent trains in Europe, they
are not perfect to all destinations at all times.

Weather was great though, and there was an airport a couple miles away, with
a flying club where I was able to rent a 172. Did a checkride the night
before, then launched in the morning, had a stunning tour of the French
countryside and had my guy on site before lunch! And the total cost of the
operation was not that much more than the train, that would have had him
there at 5PM.

Everyone was thrilled with the "usefullness" of the small plane that saved
the day - but in truth we sort of hit everything "on the numbers". The trip
was just long enough to be useful, but short enough to be practical. Weather
was fine - couldn't have planned this ahead of time under VFR, Other
transportation means were not coming through - and of course my car was
already there, so we weren't stranded upon landing.

The only "imperfect" element was that in Europe you cannot fly into large,
ommercial airports - at any cost. Charles de Gaulle is strictly off limits to
GA, so I had to get the guy to taxi to a small airport, which cost him some
time and money - but he was more than glad for the sightseeing tour. He only
saved 2.5 hours, compared to me driving him, but for me it was three hours of
relaxing flight, compared with eight hours of stressful driving.

G Faris

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:17:29 +0200, Greg Farris
wrote in ::

Sounds like fun!
I was recently (two weeks ago) on an engineering job outside of Paris France
(180nm SW of Paris). My programmer was arriving from Los Angeles on Friday
morning, and we had to get him to the site in time to meet with the
contractors before they all took off for the weekend. I could drive up to get
him, but as you say this would have been 4 hours each way - tiring to the
point of being dangerous, and not exactly optimal use of my time. Train
schedules were not cooperating, despite the excellent trains in Europe, they
are not perfect to all destinations at all times.

Weather was great though, and there was an airport a couple miles away, with
a flying club where I was able to rent a 172. Did a checkride the night
before, then launched in the morning, had a stunning tour of the French
countryside and had my guy on site before lunch! And the total cost of the
operation was not that much more than the train, that would have had him
there at 5PM.

Everyone was thrilled with the "usefullness" of the small plane that saved
the day - but in truth we sort of hit everything "on the numbers". The trip
was just long enough to be useful, but short enough to be practical. Weather
was fine - couldn't have planned this ahead of time under VFR, Other
transportation means were not coming through - and of course my car was
already there, so we weren't stranded upon landing.

The only "imperfect" element was that in Europe you cannot fly into large,
ommercial airports - at any cost. Charles de Gaulle is strictly off limits to
GA, so I had to get the guy to taxi to a small airport, which cost him some
time and money - but he was more than glad for the sightseeing tour. He only
saved 2.5 hours, compared to me driving him, but for me it was three hours of
relaxing flight, compared with eight hours of stressful driving.

G Faris

What a great story. Thanks for the information.

I thought there was considerably more involved then a typical check
out in renting an aircraft from an French aero club. Are you fluent
in French? What of the differences in ATC operation, charts, etc?

You make it sound so easy.

In article ,
says...


What a great story. Thanks for the information.

I thought there was considerably more involved then a typical check
out in renting an aircraft from an French aero club. Are you fluent
in French? What of the differences in ATC operation, charts, etc?

You make it sound so easy.



I am fluent in French, and have lived, worked and flown there quite a bit.
In this particular case though, both airports were towered with English
speaking permitted, so probably anyone could have done this particular trip.
You can easily buy 1/500 charts, somewhat similar to sectionals (four of them
cover all of France) and they have an excellent on-line service for VFR
approach and airport information plates.

Look at :
http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv..../VAC/P/VAC%20A
D%202.LFPT.pdf

to see the Paris airport I flew into - a 20 min taxi ride from Charles de
Gaulle where my programmer's 777 landed.

Airspace considerations require some familiarity - but everything is charted
and you can get clearances in English. I hear quite a few Brits on the
frequency, though I think you get more efficient service if you communicate in
French, and most non-towered airports are French only.

G Faris

On 2005-06-28, Greg Farris wrote:
The only "imperfect" element was that in Europe you cannot fly into large,
ommercial airports - at any cost

That may be true of France, but remember that Europe is not a country
any more than North America is a country. It is an agglomeration of
(mostly) sovereign nations and what may be true in France is not
necessarily true in Italy or Poland.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

In article ,
says...

That may be true of France, but remember that Europe is not a country
any more than North America is a country. It is an agglomeration of
(mostly) sovereign nations and what may be true in France is not
necessarily true in Italy or Poland.



I cannot help but think that your rejoinder would have been more informative
had you offered at least one example. In fact, unless and until you do so (or
someone does) I will stand by my generalization, which I believe to be a
reasonably accurate one.

We read many reports here of people flying Cessnas into Logan, Reagan even
JFK. Obviously they do not simply "show up" there at 5:00PM on 45° for
downwind 04R! It involves off-peak planning etc, but it is possible. They last
one to try that in Paris spent some time on the stinky side of an iron cage,
and may never see the left seat again!

I know that EDDM (Munich) has gone further than many recent constructions in
offering services to General Aviation - but they do specify that you have to
be IFR and over 2T/MTOW to land there, which rules out everything up to and
including a C-182.

You make an interesting point about the "new" extended Europe. My guess would
be that the former east-bloc nations would be even more rule and restriction
bound than the traditional Europe, but I admit I've never flown there, and I
don't know. Do you?

G Faris

Greg Farris wrote:

In article ,
says...

That may be true of France, but remember that Europe is not a country
any more than North America is a country. It is an agglomeration of
(mostly) sovereign nations and what may be true in France is not
necessarily true in Italy or Poland.




I cannot help but think that your rejoinder would have been more informative
had you offered at least one example. In fact, unless and until you do so (or
someone does) I will stand by my generalization, which I believe to be a
reasonably accurate one.

We read many reports here of people flying Cessnas into Logan, Reagan even
JFK. Obviously they do not simply "show up" there at 5:00PM on 45° for
downwind 04R! It involves off-peak planning etc, but it is possible. They last
one to try that in Paris spent some time on the stinky side of an iron cage,
and may never see the left seat again!

I know that EDDM (Munich) has gone further than many recent constructions in
offering services to General Aviation - but they do specify that you have to
be IFR and over 2T/MTOW to land there, which rules out everything up to and
including a C-182.

You make an interesting point about the "new" extended Europe. My guess would
be that the former east-bloc nations would be even more rule and restriction
bound than the traditional Europe, but I admit I've never flown there, and I
don't know. Do you?

G Faris

The European Union should fix all the difference. Right?

Wrong.

The EU has its legislation but every member state can have its own,
including aviation.
So when it comes to aviation you first have ICAO, then EU, then state
regulations.
The last ones give you the real headaches when flying from country to
country.

And every airport can decide what traffic they welcome or not.
The discussion was that large airports do not welcome GA, but on a
smaller scale some airfields are off limits to UL and things like that.

-Kees