Stupid Newbie Pattern Question

When you are flying to a non-towered airport, do you always have to fly the
pattern, or can you make a straight-in or crosswind approach?

If these are permissible, under what circumstances?

Thanks...

In a previous article, "Lakeview Bill" said:
When you are flying to a non-towered airport, do you always have to fly the
pattern, or can you make a straight-in or crosswind approach?

If these are permissible, under what circumstances?

Permissible, but not smart if there are other people in the pattern.

One of my local untowered airports has an ILS, so on a busy day with 5
people in the pattern, there is always one bozo doing straight ins (and
making radio calls that the guys in the pattern don't understand) and
disrupting everybody else.

Note to CFIIs: When doing practice approaches to a non-towered airport in
VFR conditions, don't allow you student to make radio calls giving their
position relative to the outer marker, or other IFR jargon. A lot of
private students and even pilots won't know what the heck you are talking
about.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I'd sooner volunteer to admin every Windows box at $ORKPLACE (and it's a
biiiig place) than think for one second that I could understand the thought
process of a teenage female. -- David P. Murphy

On Sat, 28 May 2005 14:20:06 +0000 (UTC), Paul Tomblin wrote:

Note to CFIIs: When doing practice approaches to a non-towered airport in
VFR conditions, don't allow you student to make radio calls giving their
position relative to the outer marker, or other IFR jargon. A lot of
private students and even pilots won't know what the heck you are talking
about.

I agree with this "somewhat" as you need to remember, the student needs to
learn the radio calls as well. So, any practice lessons with an IFR
student should include IFR jargon as you state in his radio calls.

With this in mind, I personally include VFR references in my approach into
Madison, MS (MBO). When I practice approaches, I will say:

Madison, Sundowner 12345L 5 miles NW, inbound VOR Alpha Madison. This
tells all pilots my position relative to the airport, as well as tell any
IFR traffic what my intentions are. If any pilot doesn't know where 5
miles NW is, then I would question their navigation abilities.

Allen

Question their navigation abilities or not, but these people are in the
pattern. Remember, there are student pilots and they don't know which
way anything is. Don't believe me? Do a google search on "landing
pattern computer" and look at the products. Someone is buying these
things.

I don't mean to be snobbish about it, either. When you're learning to
fly, there's a lot of cope with, and orienting onseself with an airport
traffic pattern is not immediately second nature.

That said, I tried making VFR-comprehensible position reports when I
was working on my instrument, and my CFII scolded me for it. He was
right at the time; I had enough work to do to fly the procedure
correctly. However, today, I usually do it anyway.

-- dave j

On 29 May 2005 18:05:42 -0700, wrote:

Question their navigation abilities or not, but these people are in the
pattern. Remember, there are student pilots and they don't know which
way anything is. Don't believe me? Do a google search on "landing
pattern computer" and look at the products. Someone is buying these
things.

Point well taken on student pilots Dave. Student pilots should get the
extra consideration for the learning curve. After all, we all have been
there. My original post only considered pilots, not students.

Even if the student does not know which way would be NW from the airport,
they still should have a conception of 5 miles out as I posted originally.

Even knowing that, the see and avoid on my part would be a little more
critical with the hopes that the student is correctly calling out his legs
on the pattern.

That said, I tried making VFR-comprehensible position reports when I
was working on my instrument, and my CFII scolded me for it. He was
right at the time; I had enough work to do to fly the procedure
correctly. However, today, I usually do it anyway.

Now, my CFI was the opposite. He had me do the call in my original post so
that everybody (students hopefully!) would know my position in relation to
the airport.

At MBO, there are no landmarks for the VOR Alpha approach to report other
then the VOR that's 5 miles out.

Allen

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
.. .

Point well taken on student pilots Dave. Student pilots should get the
extra consideration for the learning curve. After all, we all have been
there. My original post only considered pilots, not students.

Even if the student does not know which way would be NW from the airport,
they still should have a conception of 5 miles out as I posted originally.


A student pilot that doesn't know which way NW is not ready to solo.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Question their navigation abilities or not, but these people are in the
pattern. Remember, there are student pilots and they don't know which
way anything is. Don't believe me? Do a google search on "landing
pattern computer" and look at the products. Someone is buying these
things.


If they don't know which way anything is they shouldn't be in the pattern
solo.

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
...

I agree with this "somewhat" as you need to remember, the student needs to
learn the radio calls as well. So, any practice lessons with an IFR
student should include IFR jargon as you state in his radio calls.

With this in mind, I personally include VFR references in my approach into
Madison, MS (MBO). When I practice approaches, I will say:

Madison, Sundowner 12345L 5 miles NW, inbound VOR Alpha Madison. This
tells all pilots my position relative to the airport, as well as tell any
IFR traffic what my intentions are. If any pilot doesn't know where 5
miles NW is, then I would question their navigation abilities.


I question the ability of many pilots to estimate distance. One pilot's 5
mile report is another pilot's 10 mile report. I'll trust a position over a
charted fix or landmark or a DME distance, anything else I assume to be a
SWAG.

With this in mind, I personally include VFR references in my approach into
Madison, MS (MBO). When I practice approaches, I will say:

Madison, Sundowner 12345L 5 miles NW, inbound VOR Alpha Madison. This
tells all pilots my position relative to the airport, as well as tell any
IFR traffic what my intentions are. If any pilot doesn't know where 5
miles NW is, then I would question their navigation abilities.


I question the ability of many pilots to estimate distance. One pilot's 5
mile report is another pilot's 10 mile report.

In the pre-GPS days, this was absolutely true. Nowadays, however, we
must contend with the other end of the spectrum -- you know, the guy
who reports his distance from the airport accurate to three decimal
places...

Estimation is no longer required. Rounding is encouraged.

;-)

Now DIRECTION from the airport is another thing entirely. Just looking
at your distance readout doesn't tell you your position relative to the
airport, and this is where a lot of guys screw up, IMHO.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

In the pre-GPS days, this was absolutely true. Nowadays, however, we
must contend with the other end of the spectrum -- you know, the guy
who reports his distance from the airport accurate to three decimal
places...


When someone reports "X miles northwest" you don't know if the distance is a
SWAG or derived from GPS so it's still suspect.