JPI Data Encryption?

"Robert M. Gary" writes:

I think that is the real jist of it. JPI doesn't like EG Trends. I
would be interested in really looking at the data coming out of the new
version and see how hard it would be to decode. I would be surprised if
they are actually using any encryption, probably just some simple bit
manipulation.

I'm guessing some variation of run length encoding.

-jav

The data in the new file format is not encrypted, it's just not output in a
common format like CSV anymore.

"Javier Henderson" wrote in message
...
"Robert M. Gary" writes:

I think that is the real jist of it. JPI doesn't like EG Trends. I
would be interested in really looking at the data coming out of the new
version and see how hard it would be to decode. I would be surprised if
they are actually using any encryption, probably just some simple bit
manipulation.

I'm guessing some variation of run length encoding.

-jav

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:06:18 -0400, "Juan Jimenez"
wrote:

The data in the new file format is not encrypted, it's just not output in a
common format like CSV anymore.

Excel's import tool seems to have lots of ways to figure out how to
import delineated data. Can't whatever the device is spitting out be
imported somehow by manipulating Excel's import parameters (space
delineated, fixed-length fields, whatever)?

Thought you guys might like to see what the people from JPI are telling
the Cessnq Pilots assoc board.

#1)

Well i'd just like to clear up a few things. First, it is being said
that if your instrument needs any kind of repair that you can Not send
it in because we will update your software on the unit. This is not
true. The software on the unit we only be updated as a customer request.
Second, this is not ottis and I did not attend Sun-N-Fun. My name is
Brandon and you can contact me at anytime if there is something I can do
to help anyone.thank you

#2)

To flight-
Ok Guys-
We've heard alot of stuff- We are all getting a little emotional about
this aren't we- but here's one more reason for JPI's stance an maybe the
most important point- JPI has been developing a system that engine
manufacturers and rebuilders could use to help diagnose engines and
problems. These companies want to offer better warranty and service but
they couldn't do this if the download data could be changed. JPI
couldn't talk about this much till now - CSV files can be changed - DAT
files cannot be changed - get it? By the way JPI will convert any of
your DAT downloads for $5.00 - stand by for the details of this program-

Try to see it from JPI's stand point a little at least-

Also-All of those of you who are going to BUY EI because JPI is being so
bull headed-
So - you're going to buy an inferior product - less features, lower
quality, shorter warranty period (and yes if you compare feature for
feature - about the same price) in order to get a small feature that
really doesn't work very well yet - just to make your point-
REALLY - I gave you pilots more credit than that-
Come on admit that you are being highly influenced by APS, EI and others
and letting emotions control your forum banter- Make your decisions
based on logic and good sense and you'll buy JPI - JPI isn't perfect -
nobody is - but it still is the best Engine Data Management System on
the market and will continue to be - You're not going to be denied
access to your data and JPI is a much better product-- for example the
EI UGB fuel flow option is just fuel flow - no totalizer no time
remaining no fuel used etc-
OK now go ahead an bash me and this reply to your hearts content- but
really don't you have better things to do like go flying and have some fun-
See ya around the patch
Ottis

#3)

Fred - I couldn't find the post where you recommended the EI over the
JPI conversion from a GEM- but this is a reply to both-

Fred old boy-
Your support of EI is just a little too obvious. The EI unit is not as
easy to install as the JPI - JPI's is is a plug and play - EI's is a
rewire nightmare-
Second EI's website is full of inaccuracies - just like your post - Just
like your comment to me at Sun N Fun -
" 90% of Cessna Pilots Association members agree with me"
Let's start a poll- How's that going?

Third- really do a good price comparison and if price is such a big
factor- EI knows what their product is worth- but you'll find prices on
the open market are close

Fourth you should watch what you're accusing JPI of - Lies, threats?

Quit trying to influence smart pilots to go to EI- You're starting to
look not too informed yourself and as if you have your own little agenda.

Ottis


#4)


Quote:
The earlier statement I heard about EI and APS was also told to me
at Sun-N-Fun by your VP Larry. He also told me that EGView GAVE EI the
software for no cost to them. RIGHT! EI is reselling EGView at cost from
what I hear. They are not giving it away. I'm sure JPI could do the same
if they wanted to. Then customers would have a choice.




Just to clear things up this is –Dennis-- on --Mr. Camron's-- username
since I’m currently waiting on my screen name from the Cessna Pilot’s
board. (I should have it soon).

Jerry let me refresh your memory, it is Egview that is in bed with EI,
since EI has now “unofficially” merged with Egview and is selling
Egview’s software along with their useless instrument (I say useless to
today’s standards, since the instrument is a really poor version of the
very 1st EDM that was ever developed).

Now to the second post; it is only one way. JPI can not install an old
software nor would any customer in their right mind (except maybe you
and a couple of your friends on this board) want old software to be
installed on their new instrument. It would be as if I walked into Best
Buy and bought a brand new Pentium 4, 3.2 ghz, 180 MGB, 1GB RAM computer
then asked them to load Dos Shell or Windows 95 as my operating system.

Now, I know that these threads give us all something to talk about, but
I encourage any one with any real sincere question regarding this topic
to email me and I will respond to you no matter how rood, how hostile
and how ignorant some the emails might be (I say this out of experience
from some of the emails that I’ve received over the last couple of
days). My email address is or
. Unfortunately I have no time at work
to respond to these emails, but I promise you I will take my at home
after 6pm to sit down and answer each and every question.

Let me finish this post by saying, my name is really Dennis, it’s also
JPI-Dennis, it’s also Dennis who has a brain of his own, and can make up
his own mind as to whether this issue is just being blown out of
proportion by JPI competitors, or if this is a sincere issue that
effects some of our sincere loyal customers.

JPI is a leader in engine data management and our world wide sales of
instruments (300-400 instruments a month to be exact) and positive
feedback from our world wide customers assures us of such.


#5)

Bill, your condemning words towards a company I work for, is what made
me put up that post in the first place. What would you like me to do,
praise the competition?

Let me ask you this, how useful is Fuel Flow when you can only see GPH?
You don’t get fuel used, fuel remaining, fuel required to destination,
fuel required to waypoint, hours and minutes remaining or fuel reserved.
Even the FS 450 which generally retails for less $575 has all of these
features included. Does the UBG? That’s why I called it useless – to
today’s standards.
-dennis


#6)

Robert, these are just a few posts in on some message boards, and
believe me I am being realistic about this issue. Today we received
several emails from loyal JPI customer offering to go to all of these
websites and represent JPI because they believe in the product and the
excellent service that they have received from JPI over the last several
years.



Now to EI’s “all in one wonder” . At sun and fun I tried using this
instrument and I was told nothing on it is functioning as of now, it is
a display demo unit only. I understand that. When a friend asked them
when one would be available they told him within 2 to 3 yrs. Let’s all
step back and look at what happened to Vision Microsystems and the VM
1000. Vision had business longer then EI has, they were making twice as
much money as EI had been making and they were dominating the
experimental aircraft circle. They went in over their heads with the VM
1000 (similar to the EDM 900) and JPI had to buy them out to keep them
in business. Let me assure you that JPI will not buy out EI. So make
sure that you will have support for your EI products in the long run.

-Dennis

#7)

Quote:
But neither the EDM 700 nor the UBG 16 has all those features in
it. Let's compare apples to apples. If I want all those features and I
have an EDM 700, I have to buy the FS450 for $895 list with transducer.
If I have a UBG16, I have to add the FP-5L ($748 list with transducer)
to get those features. It's another box either way, unless I'm missing
something.



Since you wanted to compare apples to apples as you stated, (if I
remember right!?) why do we have to drift away from EI’s useless UBG 16
and talk about an instrument that they had to design separate form the
UBG to do these functions? The EDM , as I said preciously integrates all
of these features.

-Dennis


#8)

"Robert M. Gary" writes:

I just got an email back from JPI. They said that if I did upgrade my
firmware (I have the older CSV format) that they will provide the
program that reads and plots the data for free. They claim that they
aren't keeping data from anyone, that they give you the software to
read the data for free.

You get the source code for that program? If not, it's quite a
half-assed measure.

--kyler

Newps wrote:
Thought you guys might like to see what the people from JPI are
telling
the Cessnq Pilots assoc board.

snip

Those are really amusing. It seems that since I decided to buy the
EI unit, I was somehow "influenced" by EI and APS (whoever they are),
and have fallen victim to their competitors hype. In fact, the only
manufacturer that I contacted before making my decision was JPI. It
was their "influence" that drove my purchase decision. What a maroon!

The JPI folks seem to be a bit paranoid on this issue. Their
decision to lock the customer into a single software option was, well,
their decision. Now they're trying to make it sound like some sort of
conspiracy against JPI. Sounds like they've hired a former utralight
magazine publisher to do their PR :-)

Bottom line is that JPI locks you into JPI's EZplot software and EI
does not. That's it. If you're happy and confident that EZplot will
(as JPI arrogantly claims) do anything that any other software product
can do, then there's no problem. Personally, I don't buy it (pun
intended). They can make excuses all day long, but the bottom line
stands. That they have the nerve to offer to convert your data to a
reasonable format for $5 is just an additional slap in the face to the
customer.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Rule of thumb in marketing (or any time you admit that you work for
a specific company and DO NOT add a disclaimer that what is stated
is your personal opinion and not company policy) is NOT to bash
the competition but to point out the benefits of your product.

And, when representing the employer (which Dennis, Ottis and the
third writer in the posting never denied) talk to your marketing
and legal staff first. Otherwise you make claims that cannot be
substantiated.

And learn to spell.

"rood" is either a religious object or a British measurement.

end of soapbox

This guy "Dennis" sure is an arrogant ****.

If anyone is interested, I can repost the communication between the
JPI tech and a Beech list member where it says that the data WILL be
changed regardless of what the owner wants. This reply to the Cessna
people starts off with a lie, so how can anyone even think about
believing the rest of it? If I post it, please send it along to the
Cessna guys.

#2, it's there already and JPI is ****ed that someone else figured it
out. The author might have a mind of his own, but the only time he
uses it is to lie. Contact the Pope. he needs to hear about this
crap!

#3, I wonder how the competition stays in business with an inferior
product. I guess everyone that buys other than JPI is an idiot in
their eyes.

Can't go on. This guy needs a good swift kick in the head.


Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:03:37 -0600, Newps wrote:

Thought you guys might like to see what the people from JPI are telling
the Cessnq Pilots assoc board.

#1)

Well i'd just like to clear up a few things. First, it is being said
that if your instrument needs any kind of repair that you can Not send
it in because we will update your software on the unit. This is not
true. The software on the unit we only be updated as a customer request.
Second, this is not ottis and I did not attend Sun-N-Fun. My name is
Brandon and you can contact me at anytime if there is something I can do
to help anyone.thank you

#2)

To flight-
Ok Guys-
We've heard alot of stuff- We are all getting a little emotional about
this aren't we- but here's one more reason for JPI's stance an maybe the
most important point- JPI has been developing a system that engine
manufacturers and rebuilders could use to help diagnose engines and
problems. These companies want to offer better warranty and service but
they couldn't do this if the download data could be changed. JPI
couldn't talk about this much till now - CSV files can be changed - DAT
files cannot be changed - get it? By the way JPI will convert any of
your DAT downloads for $5.00 - stand by for the details of this program-

Try to see it from JPI's stand point a little at least-

Also-All of those of you who are going to BUY EI because JPI is being so
bull headed-
So - you're going to buy an inferior product - less features, lower
quality, shorter warranty period (and yes if you compare feature for
feature - about the same price) in order to get a small feature that
really doesn't work very well yet - just to make your point-
REALLY - I gave you pilots more credit than that-
Come on admit that you are being highly influenced by APS, EI and others
and letting emotions control your forum banter- Make your decisions
based on logic and good sense and you'll buy JPI - JPI isn't perfect -
nobody is - but it still is the best Engine Data Management System on
the market and will continue to be - You're not going to be denied
access to your data and JPI is a much better product-- for example the
EI UGB fuel flow option is just fuel flow - no totalizer no time
remaining no fuel used etc-
OK now go ahead an bash me and this reply to your hearts content- but
really don't you have better things to do like go flying and have some fun-
See ya around the patch
Ottis

#3)

Fred - I couldn't find the post where you recommended the EI over the
JPI conversion from a GEM- but this is a reply to both-

Fred old boy-
Your support of EI is just a little too obvious. The EI unit is not as
easy to install as the JPI - JPI's is is a plug and play - EI's is a
rewire nightmare-
Second EI's website is full of inaccuracies - just like your post - Just
like your comment to me at Sun N Fun -
" 90% of Cessna Pilots Association members agree with me"
Let's start a poll- How's that going?

Third- really do a good price comparison and if price is such a big
factor- EI knows what their product is worth- but you'll find prices on
the open market are close

Fourth you should watch what you're accusing JPI of - Lies, threats?

Quit trying to influence smart pilots to go to EI- You're starting to
look not too informed yourself and as if you have your own little agenda.

Ottis


#4)


Quote:
The earlier statement I heard about EI and APS was also told to me
at Sun-N-Fun by your VP Larry. He also told me that EGView GAVE EI the
software for no cost to them. RIGHT! EI is reselling EGView at cost from
what I hear. They are not giving it away. I'm sure JPI could do the same
if they wanted to. Then customers would have a choice.




Just to clear things up this is –Dennis-- on --Mr. Camron's-- username
since I’m currently waiting on my screen name from the Cessna Pilot’s
board. (I should have it soon).

Jerry let me refresh your memory, it is Egview that is in bed with EI,
since EI has now “unofficially” merged with Egview and is selling
Egview’s software along with their useless instrument (I say useless to
today’s standards, since the instrument is a really poor version of the
very 1st EDM that was ever developed).

Now to the second post; it is only one way. JPI can not install an old
software nor would any customer in their right mind (except maybe you
and a couple of your friends on this board) want old software to be
installed on their new instrument. It would be as if I walked into Best
Buy and bought a brand new Pentium 4, 3.2 ghz, 180 MGB, 1GB RAM computer
then asked them to load Dos Shell or Windows 95 as my operating system.

Now, I know that these threads give us all something to talk about, but
I encourage any one with any real sincere question regarding this topic
to email me and I will respond to you no matter how rood, how hostile
and how ignorant some the emails might be (I say this out of experience
from some of the emails that I’ve received over the last couple of
days). My email address is or
. Unfortunately I have no time at work
to respond to these emails, but I promise you I will take my at home
after 6pm to sit down and answer each and every question.

Let me finish this post by saying, my name is really Dennis, it’s also
JPI-Dennis, it’s also Dennis who has a brain of his own, and can make up
his own mind as to whether this issue is just being blown out of
proportion by JPI competitors, or if this is a sincere issue that
effects some of our sincere loyal customers.

JPI is a leader in engine data management and our world wide sales of
instruments (300-400 instruments a month to be exact) and positive
feedback from our world wide customers assures us of such.


#5)

Bill, your condemning words towards a company I work for, is what made
me put up that post in the first place. What would you like me to do,
praise the competition?

Let me ask you this, how useful is Fuel Flow when you can only see GPH?
You don’t get fuel used, fuel remaining, fuel required to destination,
fuel required to waypoint, hours and minutes remaining or fuel reserved.
Even the FS 450 which generally retails for less $575 has all of these
features included. Does the UBG? That’s why I called it useless – to
today’s standards.
-dennis


#6)

Robert, these are just a few posts in on some message boards, and
believe me I am being realistic about this issue. Today we received
several emails from loyal JPI customer offering to go to all of these
websites and represent JPI because they believe in the product and the
excellent service that they have received from JPI over the last several
years.



Now to EI’s “all in one wonder” . At sun and fun I tried using this
instrument and I was told nothing on it is functioning as of now, it is
a display demo unit only. I understand that. When a friend asked them
when one would be available they told him within 2 to 3 yrs. Let’s all
step back and look at what happened to Vision Microsystems and the VM
1000. Vision had business longer then EI has, they were making twice as
much money as EI had been making and they were dominating the
experimental aircraft circle. They went in over their heads with the VM
1000 (similar to the EDM 900) and JPI had to buy them out to keep them
in business. Let me assure you that JPI will not buy out EI. So make
sure that you will have support for your EI products in the long run.

-Dennis

#7)

Quote:
But neither the EDM 700 nor the UBG 16 has all those features in
it. Let's compare apples to apples. If I want all those features and I
have an EDM 700, I have to buy the FS450 for $895 list with transducer.
If I have a UBG16, I have to add the FP-5L ($748 list with transducer)
to get those features. It's another box either way, unless I'm missing
something.



Since you wanted to compare apples to apples as you stated, (if I
remember right!?) why do we have to drift away from EI’s useless UBG 16
and talk about an instrument that they had to design separate form the
UBG to do these functions? The EDM , as I said preciously integrates all
of these features.

-Dennis


#8)