Cheap sailplanes

Chaps...you're missing the point. Gliding is not in
decline because it is expensive, nor is it the British
weather. Paragliding in the UK costs £125 a day to
learn, and after about 10 days you have your 'club
pilot' rating and can fly solo..you then spend about
£3,000 on harness, wing, reserve and vario etc, and
maybe on average £1000 a year upgrading that kit as
it wears out or becomes unfashionable. The costs above
are easily in line with gliding. This year, despite
the worst weather on record, PG schools are turning
new pupils away. There is only one factor which stops
gliding being as successful as Paragliding....IMAGE.

The image of the average UK gliding club is being full
of old people in wooden gliders...the image of paragliding
is young, daredevils jumping off hills. Neither image
is correct...but it's perception that matters.

If you want gliding to prosper (and I would suggest
many pilots don't actually want the sport to go through
the transformation required) then we need a Red Bull
or Nike or Sky Sports to take gliding, tear up the
reality and change the image...and then we need clubs
to sell that image to the public.

Until people grasp this, all the talk of 'better World
Class gliders' and 'cheap winch launches' is meaningless.


Me? My kids (10, 14 and 18) have no desire to go gliding,
it's what their dad does...but wow, do they want to
do the stuff they see on TV.

Nuff said.

Chris




At 22:00 03 December 2004, Peter Seddon wrote:

'Kilo Charlie' wrote in message
news:yB2sd.19804$KO5.10476@fed1read02...
Interesting argument. Also interesting responses
some of which have
nothing
to do with your original post. Must just be the grumpy
winter lurkers.

Sorry but the origional post said that the lack of
cheap gliders was
responsible for the decline in gliding. Not so, in
the UK the bad flying
weather over the past three years has put paid to more
of our members than
anything else.

I agree with you. Soaring has to be 'cool' again
in order to have it
survive. I'm not sure that reducing the costs somewhat
wouldn't help but
nevertheless that alone will not save it.

Come fly with us, no waiting time to join just pay
us £130 for a years
membership, £2 /min aerotow and 20p /min hire, how
cheap do you want it to
be.

It is an instant gratification world out there. Why
should a kid spend
countless hours learning how to do something and paying
the dues by
watching
others do it in front of them when they can get out
the X-box or Gameboy
and
go at it with minimal instruction, cost or delay?

I can agree with that!!! But I had great fun throwing
my B4 about the sky
trying to loose the last 5k feet. You dont get that
with an XBox.

Peter.

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:28:05 -0700, "F.L. Whiteley"
wrote:

[snip]

Old fart greybeard, with glider on display, jumps out in front of a group of
likely looking college undergrad snowboarders, points, and states
emphatically, "Soaring will change your life". At least one of that group,
after going from ab-initio to switched on glider instructor, has now
completed BPT for the USN and is headed for next school and carrier duty.
He has never forgotten that day, and soaring has changed his life.

How are things going for Dillon? I heard the Navy flight training
bases were shut down by hurricanes.

rj

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 20:18:36 +0000, Robert Ehrlich
wrote:


I think a base ball or basket ball player can't understand
what satisfaction or enjoyment comes from that. This is why our
sport is declining.

It's not about putting a ball into a basket or hitting it with a piece
of wood.
It's about the girls watching you do that.

How many girls watched your low saves and wanted your phone number
after you had managed to get home?






Bye
Andreas

"Kilo Charlie" wrote in message news:yB2sd.19804$KO5.10476@fed1read02...
Interesting argument. Also interesting responses some of which have nothing
to do with your original post. Must just be the grumpy winter lurkers.

I agree with you. Soaring has to be "cool" again in order to have it
survive. I'm not sure that reducing the costs somewhat wouldn't help but
nevertheless that alone will not save it.

It is an instant gratification world out there. Why should a kid spend
countless hours learning how to do something and paying the dues by watching
others do it in front of them when they can get out the X-box or Gameboy and
go at it with minimal instruction, cost or delay?

Soaring is not much of a spectator sport but one small part of the
visibility has been taken away in the name of safety (aka liability) in the
US by a push to totally abolish low finishes. It is clear with the sold out
status of the UK Smokin Vids and the fact that the UK Junior Soaring Team
has so much fun with these finishes that it is interesting to young pilots
and spectators. I'm not advocating a "Redbull" type of approach to it but
the safety/liability issue has grown out of control in the US. For some
reason soaring has attracted more than its share of curmudgeons. Sports
like hang gliding with their speed courses for example, have taken the step
to make themselves more visible to the folks on the ground.

Casey Lenox
KC
Phoenix

Mr. Lenox nailed one of the unfortunate aspects of modern American
life: The proliferation of trial lawyers and frivolous lawsuits.
It's a shame that personal liability now factors into every aspect of
our lives, including soaring. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for
sensible and appropriate safety precautions, just against the "tax" on
most goods, services, and leisure activity due to liability lawsuits.
As to Soaring attracting curmudgeons, my guess is that probably those
very same curmudgeons used to be the younger low-finish pilots. They
just got older and more seasoned.
Respectfully,

"Steve Hill" wrote in message
...
I think we ought to concentrate on finding a venue to air our
sport on TV...somehow. Anyone know anybody involved with WINGS??

From AOPA ePilot today:

DISCOVERY CHANNEL TURNS IN ITS WINGS
Discovery Communications will, on January 10, rename its Discovery Wings
Channel the Military Channel. Stories will focus on the troops, their
equipment, the Iraq war, and a behind-the-scenes look at actual military
operations. The channel won't abandon aviation forever, however. It will
still cover topics like military jet fighters (a show scheduled for January
28) and the world-famous Blue Angels flight demonstration team (scheduled
for March 18).

It seems we ought to try to figure out ways to get our sport seen by more
eyeballs...and make sure that what people see...is cool...WAY COOL
DUDE!!!!

That seems to be a tough nut to crack. How can we get mass-media exposure
without buying it? Orgs like SSA certainly don't have the funds to buy air
time. Paid ads on popular Internet sites with links to exciting video would
probably attract a lot of eyeballs, but I have no idea what that would cost.

I do NOT recomend trying to go down the path that parachuting is taking.
Have you seen their new competition format - I think it's called
"skimming" - where they negotiate a ground-level course just before landing?
It seems destined to attract the kind of "extreme sports" spectators that
only want to see crashes, and I think that's a terrible image to cultivate
for any branch of aviation.

Roger

"Ralph Jones" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:28:05 -0700, "F.L. Whiteley"
wrote:

[snip]

Old fart greybeard, with glider on display, jumps out in front of a group
of
likely looking college undergrad snowboarders, points, and states
emphatically, "Soaring will change your life". At least one of that
group,
after going from ab-initio to switched on glider instructor, has now
completed BPT for the USN and is headed for next school and carrier duty.
He has never forgotten that day, and soaring has changed his life.

How are things going for Dillon? I heard the Navy flight training
bases were shut down by hurricanes.

rj
Graduated 4th (the other CFI-G, Austin 1st) in same class. Headed for E2/C2
school, however, the turboprops are being replaced with jets, so he's likely
headed for jet school first. Last I heard there's a good chance he'll be
around for a visit before
Christmas, then home before returning for the next training phase.

In the meantime, they've been flying the ASW-19 out of Refugio Soaring
Circle.

fw

who would be prouder to hear this Joeseph Goebbles or George Orwell?

Brad



"Roger Worden" wrote in message .com...
"Steve Hill" wrote in message
...
I think we ought to concentrate on finding a venue to air our
sport on TV...somehow. Anyone know anybody involved with WINGS??

From AOPA ePilot today:

DISCOVERY CHANNEL TURNS IN ITS WINGS
Discovery Communications will, on January 10, rename its Discovery Wings
Channel the Military Channel. Stories will focus on the troops, their
equipment, the Iraq war, and a behind-the-scenes look at actual military
operations. The channel won't abandon aviation forever, however. It will
still cover topics like military jet fighters (a show scheduled for January
28) and the world-famous Blue Angels flight demonstration team (scheduled
for March 18).

I have a 14 year old daughter who I've taken gliding a few times --
though not for three or four years (and not because I don't offer). I
ran a straw poll past her and some friends. The response: "We could
learn to fly instead of doing geography? Cooooool!"

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------

and what's really cool is that they get to learn some practical geography,
mathematics and physics without even realising it!

Ian

In article ,
"tango4" wrote:
I have a 14 year old daughter who I've taken gliding a few times --
though not for three or four years (and not because I don't offer). I
ran a straw poll past her and some friends. The response: "We could
learn to fly instead of doing geography? Cooooool!"

and what's really cool is that they get to learn some practical geography,
mathematics and physics without even realising it!

Yes indeed :-)

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------