Auto-Towing - why is this not more popular?

I once flew for an ESPN video on flying (Secrets of Speed). One of the
launch methods used was an auto pulley tow wherein the pulley was
mounted to the receiver on the back of the car and the cable was staked
to the ground near mid field. The car drove in the takeoff direction
during the launch and, with the 2:1 advantage of the pulley, it was
every bit as exciting as a winch. The car drove at about 1/2 the speed
of the glider. We were using a 3,400' runway and I don't recall the
release height, though it was not as high as a winch with a full runway
length of cable.

On 10/5/2015 5:01 AM, GB wrote:
Good question. Seems to me reverse car tows(fixed pulley windward car drives toward the glider) would be the way to go. Has there been any sailplane work with car mounted pay out winches? Pay out winches are what the hangglider and paraglider community have mostly settled on using. Both of these solutions somewhat mitigate the space needed to auto tow.


--
Dan, 5J

Dan, a pulley tow launches a glider just fine - but then you need to reset for the next launch. Often, this means untangling the rope. Straight auto tow or winch launch rarely tangles the rope.

There are very few pulley tow operations in the world and cycle time is the usual reason why they gave up on pulleys and moved on to winch launch.


On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:16:28 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
I once flew for an ESPN video on flying (Secrets of Speed).* One of
the launch methods used was an auto pulley tow wherein the pulley
was mounted to the receiver on the back of the car and the cable was
staked to the ground near mid field.* The car drove in the takeoff
direction during the launch and, with the 2:1 advantage of the
pulley, it was every bit as exciting as a winch.* The car drove at
about 1/2 the speed of the glider.* We were using a 3,400' runway
and I don't recall the release height, though it was not as high as
a winch with a full runway length of cable.




On 10/5/2015 5:01 AM, GB wrote:



Good question. Seems to me reverse car tows(fixed pulley windward car drives toward the glider) would be the way to go. Has there been any sailplane work with car mounted pay out winches? Pay out winches are what the hangglider and paraglider community have mostly settled on using. Both of these solutions somewhat mitigate the space needed to auto tow.






--

Dan, 5J

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 6:18:15 PM UTC-6,
http://www.coloradosoaring.org/think...ey/default.htm

Reverse pulley is the best way to autotow. Cotswold no longer does this, but did so for about 30 years.

Frank Whiteley

wrote:
Dan, a pulley tow launches a glider just fine - but then you need to reset for the next launch. Often, this means untangling the rope. Straight auto tow or winch launch rarely tangles the rope.

There are very few pulley tow operations in the world and cycle time is the usual reason why they gave up on pulleys and moved on to winch launch.


On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:16:28 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
I once flew for an ESPN video on flying (Secrets of Speed).* One of
the launch methods used was an auto pulley tow wherein the pulley
was mounted to the receiver on the back of the car and the cable was
staked to the ground near mid field.* The car drove in the takeoff
direction during the launch and, with the 2:1 advantage of the
pulley, it was every bit as exciting as a winch.* The car drove at
about 1/2 the speed of the glider.* We were using a 3,400' runway
and I don't recall the release height, though it was not as high as
a winch with a full runway length of cable.




On 10/5/2015 5:01 AM, GB wrote:



Good question. Seems to me reverse car tows(fixed pulley windward car drives toward the glider) would be the way to go. Has there been any sailplane work with car mounted pay out winches? Pay out winches are what the hangglider and paraglider community have mostly settled on using. Both of these solutions somewhat mitigate the space needed to auto tow.






--

Dan, 5J

Thanks, Bill.

I only did a couple of pulley tows for the filming of the ESPN thing.
Some of the raw footage (not shown on TV) shows the rear end of the car
being lifted sufficiently that the driver lost control of the car.
Fortunately the passenger/observer was Emerson Fittipaldi and he reached
across, took the wheel, and straightened out the car. When I released,
it was quite a sight seeing the rope literally slamming down on the
runway. I can easily imagine the tangles this caused in the pulley
system. =-O

Dan

On 10/5/2015 6:18 PM, wrote:


Dan, a pulley tow launches a glider just fine - but then you need to reset for the next launch. Often, this means untangling the rope. Straight auto tow or winch launch rarely tangles the rope.

There are very few pulley tow operations in the world and cycle time is the usual reason why they gave up on pulleys and moved on to winch launch.


On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:16:28 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
I once flew for an ESPN video on flying (Secrets of Speed). One of
the launch methods used was an auto pulley tow wherein the pulley
was mounted to the receiver on the back of the car and the cable was
staked to the ground near mid field. The car drove in the takeoff
direction during the launch and, with the 2:1 advantage of the
pulley, it was every bit as exciting as a winch. The car drove at
about 1/2 the speed of the glider. We were using a 3,400' runway
and I don't recall the release height, though it was not as high as
a winch with a full runway length of cable.




On 10/5/2015 5:01 AM, GB wrote:



Good question. Seems to me reverse car tows(fixed pulley windward car drives toward the glider) would be the way to go. Has there been any sailplane work with car mounted pay out winches? Pay out winches are what the hangglider and paraglider community have mostly settled on using. Both of these solutions somewhat mitigate the space needed to auto tow.






--

Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J

....
I have the raw footage on DVD. Perhaps I can find a "free" video editor
program and pull out the car pulley sequence and upload to google
drive. We'll see...

Dan

On 10/6/2015 9:21 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks, Bill.

I only did a couple of pulley tows for the filming of the ESPN thing.
Some of the raw footage (not shown on TV) shows the rear end of the
car being lifted sufficiently that the driver lost control of the
car. Fortunately the passenger/observer was Emerson Fittipaldi and he
reached across, took the wheel, and straightened out the car. When I
released, it was quite a sight seeing the rope literally slamming down
on the runway. I can easily imagine the tangles this caused in the
pulley system. =-O

Dan

On 10/5/2015 6:18 PM, wrote:


Dan, a pulley tow launches a glider just fine - but then you need to reset for the next launch. Often, this means untangling the rope. Straight auto tow or winch launch rarely tangles the rope.

There are very few pulley tow operations in the world and cycle time is the usual reason why they gave up on pulleys and moved on to winch launch.


On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:16:28 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
I once flew for an ESPN video on flying (Secrets of Speed). One of
the launch methods used was an auto pulley tow wherein the pulley
was mounted to the receiver on the back of the car and the cable was
staked to the ground near mid field. The car drove in the takeoff
direction during the launch and, with the 2:1 advantage of the
pulley, it was every bit as exciting as a winch. The car drove at
about 1/2 the speed of the glider. We were using a 3,400' runway
and I don't recall the release height, though it was not as high as
a winch with a full runway length of cable.




On 10/5/2015 5:01 AM, GB wrote:



Good question. Seems to me reverse car tows(fixed pulley windward car drives toward the glider) would be the way to go. Has there been any sailplane work with car mounted pay out winches? Pay out winches are what the hangglider and paraglider community have mostly settled on using. Both of these solutions somewhat mitigate the space needed to auto tow.






--

Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J

As promised, the following clip was copied from raw film shot for an
ESPN show, Secrets of Speed. The ground launch begins around 30 seconds
into the clip but I left the low pass just for fun. This shows what
happens to the tow car when the glider (me in my LS-6a) pull too
aggressively at the top.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k9a4v2wbg9...aunch.mp4?dl=0

On 10/6/2015 9:35 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
...
I have the raw footage on DVD. Perhaps I can find a "free" video
editor program and pull out the car pulley sequence and upload to
google drive. We'll see...

Dan

On 10/6/2015 9:21 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks, Bill.

I only did a couple of pulley tows for the filming of the ESPN
thing. Some of the raw footage (not shown on TV) shows the rear end
of the car being lifted sufficiently that the driver lost control of
the car. Fortunately the passenger/observer was Emerson Fittipaldi
and he reached across, took the wheel, and straightened out the car.
When I released, it was quite a sight seeing the rope literally
slamming down on the runway. I can easily imagine the tangles this
caused in the pulley system. =-O

Dan

On 10/5/2015 6:18 PM, wrote:


Dan, a pulley tow launches a glider just fine - but then you need to reset for the next launch. Often, this means untangling the rope. Straight auto tow or winch launch rarely tangles the rope.

There are very few pulley tow operations in the world and cycle time is the usual reason why they gave up on pulleys and moved on to winch launch.


On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:16:28 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
I once flew for an ESPN video on flying (Secrets of Speed). One of
the launch methods used was an auto pulley tow wherein the pulley
was mounted to the receiver on the back of the car and the cable was
staked to the ground near mid field. The car drove in the takeoff
direction during the launch and, with the 2:1 advantage of the
pulley, it was every bit as exciting as a winch. The car drove at
about 1/2 the speed of the glider. We were using a 3,400' runway
and I don't recall the release height, though it was not as high as
a winch with a full runway length of cable.




On 10/5/2015 5:01 AM, GB wrote:



Good question. Seems to me reverse car tows(fixed pulley windward car drives toward the glider) would be the way to go. Has there been any sailplane work with car mounted pay out winches? Pay out winches are what the hangglider and paraglider community have mostly settled on using. Both of these solutions somewhat mitigate the space needed to auto tow.






--

Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J

On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 6:06:34 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
As promised, the following clip was copied from raw film shot for an
ESPN show, Secrets of Speed.* The ground launch begins around 30
seconds into the clip but I left the low pass just for fun.* This
shows what happens to the tow car when the glider (me in my LS-6a)
pull too aggressively at the top.



https://www.dropbox.com/s/k9a4v2wbg9...aunch.mp4?dl=0




On 10/6/2015 9:35 AM, Dan Marotta
wrote:




...

I have the raw footage on DVD.* Perhaps I can find a "free" video
editor program and pull out the car pulley sequence and upload to
google drive.* We'll see...



Dan




On 10/6/2015 9:21 AM, Dan Marotta
wrote:




Thanks, Bill.



I only did a couple of pulley tows for the filming of the ESPN
thing.* Some of the raw footage (not shown on TV) shows the rear
end of the car being lifted sufficiently that the driver lost
control of the car.* Fortunately the passenger/observer was
Emerson Fittipaldi and he reached across, took the wheel, and
straightened out the car.* When I released, it was quite a sight
seeing the rope literally slamming down on the runway.* I can
easily imagine the tangles this caused in the pulley system. =-O



Dan




On 10/5/2015 6:18 PM,
wrote:







Dan, a pulley tow launches a glider just fine - but then you need to reset for the next launch. Often, this means untangling the rope. Straight auto tow or winch launch rarely tangles the rope.

There are very few pulley tow operations in the world and cycle time is the usual reason why they gave up on pulleys and moved on to winch launch.


On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 9:16:28 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:


I once flew for an ESPN video on flying (Secrets of Speed).* One of
the launch methods used was an auto pulley tow wherein the pulley
was mounted to the receiver on the back of the car and the cable was
staked to the ground near mid field.* The car drove in the takeoff
direction during the launch and, with the 2:1 advantage of the
pulley, it was every bit as exciting as a winch.* The car drove at
about 1/2 the speed of the glider.* We were using a 3,400' runway
and I don't recall the release height, though it was not as high as
a winch with a full runway length of cable.




On 10/5/2015 5:01 AM, GB wrote:



Good question. Seems to me reverse car tows(fixed pulley windward car drives toward the glider) would be the way to go. Has there been any sailplane work with car mounted pay out winches? Pay out winches are what the hangglider and paraglider community have mostly settled on using. Both of these solutions somewhat mitigate the space needed to auto tow.






--

Dan, 5J






--

Dan, 5J




--

Dan, 5J




--

Dan, 5J

Yep. That's why we had 400 pounds of bricks in the trunk of our autolaunch car.

Frank W. What kind of wire are people using and where to get it, Please. Just now learning about winch use.

I don't think I've ever felt the rear ended get light on my truck. We've used Dodge Ram 2500, my 2007 5.7L Tundra, and a newer Toyota FJ with no reports of rear end lift.
BillT