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SSA National Convention, every year, every other?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 6th 04, 03:57 AM
Jim Culp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default SSA National Convention, every year, every other?


Questions of costs and benefits,
and preferences:

Who benefits from annual SSA national convention?


Do glider and electronics vendors benefit by annual
show, vs the cost to them to go?

Can you, vendor, afford to go annually and is it cost/benefit
justified?

Can you, SSA member, afford to go annually?

How much debt or cash or debt do you lay out to go
to SSA convention considering registration fees, dinners,
party fees, hotel, transportation, incidentals: As
a vendor? As an SSA member?

Would you be satisfied with an every other year convention,
as a SSA member or as a vendor ?

Who makes out well by annual SSA conventions?

Does SSA make money? If so, how much?

Does host club or committee make money? If so, how
much?

Are annual SSA conventions sufficiently well attended
to justify annual efforts?

How many full registrants were in Atlanta AirExpo2004?

Year before that?

Understand, I love the conventions. Good, yes.

Can I go annually. No way.
Can others?

Would every other year be just as good, and regional
or state soaring efforts could host 1 or 2 day sessions
like the Soaring Symposiums and similar efforts did.


Would anyone, and any vendor suffer if there were every
other year SSA National Convention? Would SSA suffer?
How?

Your ideas, preferences?

Kindest regards.

Dancing on clouds,
Keep it up!

Jim Culp USA
Asw-20c/Std Libelle
Gatorcity Florida


  #2  
Old March 6th 04, 06:39 AM
Tim Mara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

IMHO.......
I have made my case to many in the SSA and others...I hope the powers to be
are listening....
I think the SSA does OK with the conventions....at least, it's the feather
in their cap to have their name known and seen as the spotlight feature for
these events.....and the cost to the SSA (and I speak here as the office
itself, not specifically the organization (us) as a whole...) are relatively
low.
As a small vendor (we are all small vendors if we are selling sailplanes and
sailplane related supplies...big fish, very small pond) the costs to attend
these events are very high....every turn you make in one of these convention
centers you'll find someone with another charge. Aside from simple
exhibition space costs itself, if you need a table.it's $150 +, a chair
$60...electricity on a simple extension cord almost $100...telephone service
or internet hook-up..forget it, either of these might cost you $500 for 3
days!..on and on....I shipped boxes of items to display, the cost to ship
big boxes by UPS or FedEx insured costs lots of $$........then, on top of
this the convention center charges you $50 +++ just to receive the
box!...convention centers are expensive, convention center hotels are
expensive, travel is expensive.....I honestly can't say being there can or
does ever generate the business necessary to cover the cost to do
these.....not being there probably also has a negative effect as it then
looks like you're not really in business if your customers don't find you
there.....
Personally, I don't really go to the convention with the intention of
selling products there (it's far easier to do this and ship from here) but
many non-soaring businesses do, I go there hopefully just to show what's
available, to let visitors touch and see things close up and compare for
themselves so there's really no profit for these events to cover these cost
directly from the convention itself.....and, like most of us, we miss
customer calls from our places of business when we're there...It's also not
easy to give good answers to everyone who stops by and some visitors get put
off by this too...it can't always be helped.
The nuts and bolts of this are that there really isn't enough new or
exciting stuff to put on display every year to make these really worthwhile
for the vendors..or, more importantly, for the members and visitors who
attend these events....
I have suggested we do these every 2 years....every year is just too much
(IMHO)...nearly all of the exhibitors I spoke with agree.....the SSA I hope
will listen......We have essentially the same speakers giving mostly the
same (sales pitch) talks as they did the year before and the year before
that too.....granted, there are new and fresh speakers, a few new topics to
ponder and my hat comes off to those you do prepare and work hard to try to
make their talks interesting and entertaining......many are there though to
self serve and have their own infomercial under the guise of some technical
topic....most of us see through this.
I really think a great event for the conventions would be a used glider
sale.....we could easily have dozens of anxious sellers with their gliders
on display and hundreds of anxious buyers with a single shopping center at
their fingertips to compare in a single place....the SSA could (I think if
they don't have the proper tax status get the NSM, SRA or SSF who might have
access to this status to run this) even auction off gliders donated by their
owners as charitable (read: Tax write-off) contributions.....now that would
get some excitement going!.....and new owners do add life to the sport!
Moving gliders between owners and want-to-be-owners also helps the
sport....just my idea...
anyway...I may not be popular with some for these comments...but it is my
(our) sport and organizations...I think we all need to make these opinions
known....to our fellow members, and our officers as well....
sorry to be so lengthy......I could go on.I won't
Respectfully
Tim
Wings & Wheels
www.wingsandwheels.com


"Jim Culp" wrote in message
...

Questions of costs and benefits,
and preferences:

Who benefits from annual SSA national convention?


Do glider and electronics vendors benefit by annual
show, vs the cost to them to go?

Can you, vendor, afford to go annually and is it cost/benefit
justified?

Can you, SSA member, afford to go annually?

How much debt or cash or debt do you lay out to go
to SSA convention considering registration fees, dinners,
party fees, hotel, transportation, incidentals: As
a vendor? As an SSA member?

Would you be satisfied with an every other year convention,
as a SSA member or as a vendor ?

Who makes out well by annual SSA conventions?

Does SSA make money? If so, how much?

Does host club or committee make money? If so, how
much?

Are annual SSA conventions sufficiently well attended
to justify annual efforts?

How many full registrants were in Atlanta AirExpo2004?

Year before that?

Understand, I love the conventions. Good, yes.

Can I go annually. No way.
Can others?

Would every other year be just as good, and regional
or state soaring efforts could host 1 or 2 day sessions
like the Soaring Symposiums and similar efforts did.


Would anyone, and any vendor suffer if there were every
other year SSA National Convention? Would SSA suffer?
How?

Your ideas, preferences?

Kindest regards.

Dancing on clouds,
Keep it up!

Jim Culp USA
Asw-20c/Std Libelle
Gatorcity Florida





  #3  
Old March 6th 04, 06:40 AM
Tim Mara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

IMHO.......
I have made my case to many in the SSA and others...I hope the powers to be
are listening....
I think the SSA does OK with the conventions....at least, it's the feather
in their cap to have their name known and seen as the spotlight feature for
these events.....and the cost to the SSA (and I speak here as the office
itself, not specifically the organization (us) as a whole...) are relatively
low.
As a small vendor (we are all small vendors if we are selling sailplanes and
sailplane related supplies...big fish, very small pond) the costs to attend
these events are very high....every turn you make in one of these convention
centers you'll find someone with another charge. Aside from simple
exhibition space costs itself, if you need a table.it's $150 +, a chair
$60...electricity on a simple extension cord almost $100...telephone service
or internet hook-up..forget it, either of these might cost you $500 for 3
days!..on and on....I shipped boxes of items to display, the cost to ship
big boxes by UPS or FedEx insured costs lots of $$........then, on top of
this the convention center charges you $50 +++ just to receive the
box!...convention centers are expensive, convention center hotels are
expensive, travel is expensive.....I honestly can't say being there can or
does ever generate the business necessary to cover the cost to do
these.....not being there probably also has a negative effect as it then
looks like you're not really in business if your customers don't find you
there.....
Personally, I don't really go to the convention with the intention of
selling products there (it's far easier to do this and ship from here) but
many non-soaring businesses do, I go there hopefully just to show what's
available, to let visitors touch and see things close up and compare for
themselves so there's really no profit for these events to cover these cost
directly from the convention itself.....and, like most of us, we miss
customer calls from our places of business when we're there...It's also not
easy to give good answers to everyone who stops by and some visitors get put
off by this too...it can't always be helped.
The nuts and bolts of this are that there really isn't enough new or
exciting stuff to put on display every year to make these really worthwhile
for the vendors..or, more importantly, for the members and visitors who
attend these events....
I have suggested we do these every 2 years....every year is just too much
(IMHO)...nearly all of the exhibitors I spoke with agree.....the SSA I hope
will listen......We have essentially the same speakers giving mostly the
same (sales pitch) talks as they did the year before and the year before
that too.....granted, there are new and fresh speakers, a few new topics to
ponder and my hat comes off to those you do prepare and work hard to try to
make their talks interesting and entertaining......many are there though to
self serve and have their own infomercial under the guise of some technical
topic....most of us see through this.
I really think a great event for the conventions would be a used glider
sale.....we could easily have dozens of anxious sellers with their gliders
on display and hundreds of anxious buyers with a single shopping center at
their fingertips to compare in a single place....the SSA could (I think if
they don't have the proper tax status get the NSM, SRA or SSF who might have
access to this status to run this) even auction off gliders donated by their
owners as charitable (read: Tax write-off) contributions.....now that would
get some excitement going!.....and new owners do add life to the sport!
Moving gliders between owners and want-to-be-owners also helps the
sport....just my idea...
anyway...I may not be popular with some for these comments...but it is my
(our) sport and organizations...I think we all need to make these opinions
known....to our fellow members, and our officers as well....
sorry to be so lengthy......I could go on.I won't
Respectfully
Tim
Wings & Wheels
www.wingsandwheels.com


"Jim Culp" wrote in message
...

Questions of costs and benefits,
and preferences:

Who benefits from annual SSA national convention?


Do glider and electronics vendors benefit by annual
show, vs the cost to them to go?

Can you, vendor, afford to go annually and is it cost/benefit
justified?

Can you, SSA member, afford to go annually?

How much debt or cash or debt do you lay out to go
to SSA convention considering registration fees, dinners,
party fees, hotel, transportation, incidentals: As
a vendor? As an SSA member?

Would you be satisfied with an every other year convention,
as a SSA member or as a vendor ?

Who makes out well by annual SSA conventions?

Does SSA make money? If so, how much?

Does host club or committee make money? If so, how
much?

Are annual SSA conventions sufficiently well attended
to justify annual efforts?

How many full registrants were in Atlanta AirExpo2004?

Year before that?

Understand, I love the conventions. Good, yes.

Can I go annually. No way.
Can others?

Would every other year be just as good, and regional
or state soaring efforts could host 1 or 2 day sessions
like the Soaring Symposiums and similar efforts did.


Would anyone, and any vendor suffer if there were every
other year SSA National Convention? Would SSA suffer?
How?

Your ideas, preferences?

Kindest regards.

Dancing on clouds,
Keep it up!

Jim Culp USA
Asw-20c/Std Libelle
Gatorcity Florida






  #4  
Old March 6th 04, 03:41 PM
JJ Sinclair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Very good question, Jim
The last one I went to was "Local" (as in only 1000 mile drive). I spent $1000
bucks and didn't buy anything.

I have been on a "Every 5 year", schedule for about the last 20 years, now.
They're nice, but not very.
JJ Sinclair
  #5  
Old March 6th 04, 03:50 PM
Chris OCallaghan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hey Jim,

Here's a member opinion for what it's worth. During 26 years of SSA
membership, I have attended 3 conventions (Valley Forge, Chicago,
Dayton). This was dictated wholly by convenience (can I get there
easily and within the contraints of my work schedule?). I enjoyed
myself each time, but more for the opportunity of chance meetings with
old friends. The petting zoo is nice... but there really isn't enough
new under the sun to justify a visit solely to see gliders and related
paraphernalia, and certainly not once a year. The presentations have
changed little over the years. Every convention features something
new, but for the most part, we're hearing tales oft told. This is
great for new members, but a better balance of new and golden oldies
would be preferable. If staging the event every other year helps this,
I am all for it.

If I had the sense that a convention had many new, interesting
products and insights to offer, I might be enticed to make it a
regular pilgrimage. Under the current formula, I'm coming once every 8
years.

OC
  #6  
Old March 6th 04, 05:21 PM
Steve Pawling
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Very good questions Jim. SSA could find out what membership thinks
about annual conventions by doing a survey. USHGA has recently done
three online surveys and you can see the results at:

http://www.ushga.org/ballot3_results.asp

After "ballot" replace the "3" with 1 or 2 to see the other surveys.

Cu skies,
Steve
LS-3a, Arcus XL

Jim Culp wrote in message ...
Questions of costs and benefits,
and preferences:

Who benefits from annual SSA national convention?


Do glider and electronics vendors benefit by annual
show, vs the cost to them to go?

Can you, vendor, afford to go annually and is it cost/benefit
justified?

Can you, SSA member, afford to go annually?

How much debt or cash or debt do you lay out to go
to SSA convention considering registration fees, dinners,
party fees, hotel, transportation, incidentals: As
a vendor? As an SSA member?

Would you be satisfied with an every other year convention,
as a SSA member or as a vendor ?

Who makes out well by annual SSA conventions?

Does SSA make money? If so, how much?

Does host club or committee make money? If so, how
much?

Are annual SSA conventions sufficiently well attended
to justify annual efforts?

How many full registrants were in Atlanta AirExpo2004?

Year before that?

Understand, I love the conventions. Good, yes.

Can I go annually. No way.
Can others?

Would every other year be just as good, and regional
or state soaring efforts could host 1 or 2 day sessions
like the Soaring Symposiums and similar efforts did.


Would anyone, and any vendor suffer if there were every
other year SSA National Convention? Would SSA suffer?
How?

Your ideas, preferences?

Kindest regards.

Dancing on clouds,
Keep it up!

Jim Culp USA
Asw-20c/Std Libelle
Gatorcity Florida

  #7  
Old March 6th 04, 06:05 PM
bumper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I've only been in gliding since '98 and have attended two conventions
(Albuquerque and Ontario). Ontario gave me the opportunity to go back and
forth between two gliders and finally make up my mind which to order (g).

The problem with going to less frequent conventions is that, for those
unwilling to travel far to attend, reasonably close conventions are already
infrequent.

How about some "open air" conventions held at major soaring sites using a
similar format to airshows and fly-ins? That would help keep costs down,
promote soaring sites, and put more money and recognition for soaring into
the smaller economic environments where we live and play.

Let's do one at Minden!

--
bumper ZZ (reverse all after @)
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."







"Tim Mara" wrote in message
...
IMHO.......
I have made my case to many in the SSA and others...I hope the powers to

be
are listening....
I think the SSA does OK with the conventions....at least, it's the feather
in their cap to have their name known and seen as the spotlight feature

for
these events.....and the cost to the SSA (and I speak here as the office
itself, not specifically the organization (us) as a whole...) are

relatively
low.



  #8  
Old March 6th 04, 06:56 PM
Ian Cant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What Tim says is very true, we are in a survival mode
and costs have to be watched.

Since the content of the convention necessarily has
little change year-to-year, annual conventions for
the whole existing membership don't make much sense.
But the whole membership does not attend, because
of the rotation round the country. What we really
have right now is the cost of an annual convention
for the vendors, but the potential attendance of only
one-third of the already small membership each year.

A suggestion: if a few vendors experimented with either
Oshkosh or another major EAA event instead, would the
still-high costs be better repaid by the much larger
audience ? And instead of preaching only to the choir,
there would be the rest of the congregation who might
be encouraged to singalong ?

Ian



At 05:48 06 March 2004, Tim Mara wrote:
IMHO.......
I have made my case to many in the SSA and others...I
hope the powers to be
are listening....
I think the SSA does OK with the conventions....at
least, it's the feather
in their cap to have their name known and seen as the
spotlight feature for
these events.....and the cost to the SSA (and I speak
here as the office
itself, not specifically the organization (us) as a
whole...) are relatively
low.
As a small vendor (we are all small vendors if we are
selling sailplanes and
sailplane related supplies...big fish, very small pond)
the costs to attend
these events are very high....every turn you make in
one of these convention
centers you'll find someone with another charge. Aside
from simple
exhibition space costs itself, if you need a table.it's
$150 +, a chair
$60...electricity on a simple extension cord almost
$100...telephone service
or internet hook-up..forget it, either of these might
cost you $500 for 3
days!..on and on....I shipped boxes of items to display,
the cost to ship
big boxes by UPS or FedEx insured costs lots of $$........then,
on top of
this the convention center charges you $50 +++ just
to receive the
box!...convention centers are expensive, convention
center hotels are
expensive, travel is expensive.....I honestly can't
say being there can or
does ever generate the business necessary to cover
the cost to do
these.....not being there probably also has a negative
effect as it then
looks like you're not really in business if your customers
don't find you
there.....
Personally, I don't really go to the convention with
the intention of
selling products there (it's far easier to do this
and ship from here) but
many non-soaring businesses do, I go there hopefully
just to show what's
available, to let visitors touch and see things close
up and compare for
themselves so there's really no profit for these events
to cover these cost
directly from the convention itself.....and, like most
of us, we miss
customer calls from our places of business when we're
there...It's also not
easy to give good answers to everyone who stops by
and some visitors get put
off by this too...it can't always be helped.
The nuts and bolts of this are that there really isn't
enough new or
exciting stuff to put on display every year to make
these really worthwhile
for the vendors..or, more importantly, for the members
and visitors who
attend these events....
I have suggested we do these every 2 years....every
year is just too much
(IMHO)...nearly all of the exhibitors I spoke with
agree.....the SSA I hope
will listen......We have essentially the same speakers
giving mostly the
same (sales pitch) talks as they did the year before
and the year before
that too.....granted, there are new and fresh speakers,
a few new topics to
ponder and my hat comes off to those you do prepare
and work hard to try to
make their talks interesting and entertaining......many
are there though to
self serve and have their own infomercial under the
guise of some technical
topic....most of us see through this.
I really think a great event for the conventions would
be a used glider
sale.....we could easily have dozens of anxious sellers
with their gliders
on display and hundreds of anxious buyers with a single
shopping center at
their fingertips to compare in a single place....the
SSA could (I think if
they don't have the proper tax status get the NSM,
SRA or SSF who might have
access to this status to run this) even auction off
gliders donated by their
owners as charitable (read: Tax write-off) contributions.....now
that would
get some excitement going!.....and new owners do add
life to the sport!
Moving gliders between owners and want-to-be-owners
also helps the
sport....just my idea...
anyway...I may not be popular with some for these comments...but
it is my
(our) sport and organizations...I think we all need
to make these opinions
known....to our fellow members, and our officers as
well....
sorry to be so lengthy......I could go on.I won't
Respectfully
Tim
Wings & Wheels
www.wingsandwheels.com


'Jim Culp' wrote in message
...

Questions of costs and benefits,
and preferences:

Who benefits from annual SSA national convention?


Do glider and electronics vendors benefit by annual
show, vs the cost to them to go?

Can you, vendor, afford to go annually and is it
cost/benefit
justified?

Can you, SSA member, afford to go annually?

How much debt or cash or debt do you lay out to go
to SSA convention considering registration fees, dinners,
party fees, hotel, transportation, incidentals: As
a vendor? As an SSA member?

Would you be satisfied with an every other year convention,
as a SSA member or as a vendor ?

Who makes out well by annual SSA conventions?

Does SSA make money? If so, how much?

Does host club or committee make money? If so, how
much?

Are annual SSA conventions sufficiently well attended
to justify annual efforts?

How many full registrants were in Atlanta AirExpo2004?

Year before that?

Understand, I love the conventions. Good, yes.

Can I go annually. No way.
Can others?

Would every other year be just as good, and regional
or state soaring efforts could host 1 or 2 day sessions
like the Soaring Symposiums and similar efforts did.


Would anyone, and any vendor suffer if there were
every
other year SSA National Convention? Would SSA suffer?
How?

Your ideas, preferences?

Kindest regards.

Dancing on clouds,
Keep it up!

Jim Culp USA
Asw-20c/Std Libelle
Gatorcity Florida









  #9  
Old March 6th 04, 06:59 PM
Nyal Williams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

At 03:06 06 March 2004, Jim Culp wrote:

Questions of costs and benefits,
and preferences:

Who benefits from annual SSA national convention?


The CFI renewal clinic is especially useful. It puts
us together with other instructors to talk about issues,
etc. Granted, we do that only every other year, but
half of those who use it would be on the wrong cycle,
and I'm not sure whether those who put it on would
be willing to have double the registration.




  #10  
Old March 6th 04, 07:44 PM
Greg Arnold
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The idea that there are too many conventions reminds me of the person
who notices that there are 17 brands of toothpaste on the shelf, and
insists the other 16 should be eliminated because he never uses them.

I believe the conventions are a big money maker for the SSA and the
clubs putting them on. Vendors may complain about the costs, but no one
is forcing them to attend. If they feel the conventions should only be
held every other year, they are welcome to just attend every other year.


bumper wrote:
I've only been in gliding since '98 and have attended two conventions
(Albuquerque and Ontario). Ontario gave me the opportunity to go back and
forth between two gliders and finally make up my mind which to order (g).

The problem with going to less frequent conventions is that, for those
unwilling to travel far to attend, reasonably close conventions are already
infrequent.

How about some "open air" conventions held at major soaring sites using a
similar format to airshows and fly-ins? That would help keep costs down,
promote soaring sites, and put more money and recognition for soaring into
the smaller economic environments where we live and play.

Let's do one at Minden!

 




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