Cessna 152 spin integrity

As an 80 year old ex-pilot, I am astonished at all this talk about spins by
presumibly experienced pilots! When I went thru training a century ago, we
did spins before we soloed! Of course, virtually every aircraft in that day
was prone to inadvertant spins, whereas GA aircraft today are almost
incapable of spinning. In addition, we were recovering from unusual
attitudes under the hood (needle, ball and airspeed, no gyros) and
recovering from inverted with minimum loss of altitude (don't remember what
the minimum was at the time, but it wasn't much) before we were signed off
as competent of unconditional flight.

I really enjoy this NG, learning a lot about all the aids and equipment
available nowdays, and especially enjoy the discussions on airmanship.

They grounded my ass quite some time ago, but my heart is still in the air.

birdog wrote:
As an 80 year old ex-pilot, I am astonished at all this talk about spins by
presumibly experienced pilots! When I went thru training a century ago, we
did spins before we soloed! Of course, virtually every aircraft in that day
was prone to inadvertant spins, whereas GA aircraft today are almost
incapable of spinning. In addition, we were recovering from unusual
attitudes under the hood (needle, ball and airspeed, no gyros) and
recovering from inverted with minimum loss of altitude (don't remember what
the minimum was at the time, but it wasn't much) before we were signed off
as competent of unconditional flight.

I really enjoy this NG, learning a lot about all the aids and equipment
available nowdays, and especially enjoy the discussions on airmanship.

They grounded my ass quite some time ago, but my heart is still in the air.


Your points are well taken, but in the interest of clarity, I wouldn't
make the comparison between the GA planes of yesterday and today going
quite so far as to say the GA planes today are "almost incapable of
spinning". This simply isn't true, and if the two aerodynamic factors
required for a spin to occur are present, (stall and yaw), the vast
majority of the current crop of the GA fleet will indeed spin.


--
Dudley Henriques

TSTC has an above-average rating among those
I've talked with so I'm anticipating good instruction.
...
Ricky

Does TSTC rent planes to anybody but enrolled students of TSTC?

It aggravates me that McGregor is the only place around renting. Up in
Tulsa a 152 rental is 65 an hour wet. At McGregor they've gone up to
90!

Fer Pete's sake ... we need some competion in the HOT.

On Jan 27, 9:18*pm, wrote:
TSTC has an above-average rating among those
I've talked with so I'm anticipating good instruction.
*...
Ricky

Does TSTC rent planes to anybody but enrolled students of TSTC?

It aggravates me that McGregor is the only place around renting. Up in
Tulsa a 152 rental is 65 an hour wet. At McGregor they've gone up to
90!

Fer Pete's sake ... we need some competion in the HOT.

I'm not in pilot training there, in A&P school, but I am almost
positive the planes are only for students. I did go through part of
their pilot training and at the time, 12 or so years ago, the planes
were student-only.

I just found out tonight that if one works for RAM Aircraft at ACT
they have a 172, 210 and maybe a 206 that goes dirt cheap as an
employee benefit for rated pilots. $20 bucks an hour wet for the 172,
$40 for the 210!!!! Wow, makes me want to give RAM an application in a
few months when I'm done with school!

Wow, $95 for a 152?! Sheesh...

Enrolled TSTC students enjoy quite the low rates on the schools planes
from what I've heard, which is typical for a part 141 school I think.

Ricky

On Jan 27, 11:36*pm, Ricky wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:18*pm, wrote:

TSTC has an above-average rating among those
I've talked with so I'm anticipating good instruction.
*...
Ricky

Does TSTC rent planes to anybody but enrolled students of TSTC?

It aggravates me that McGregor is the only place around renting. Up in
Tulsa a 152 rental is 65 an hour wet. At McGregor they've gone up to
90!

Fer Pete's sake ... we need some competion in the HOT.

I'm not in pilot training there, in A&P school, but I am almost
positive the planes are only for students. I did go through part of
their pilot training and at the time, 12 or so years ago, the planes
were student-only.

I just found out tonight that if one works for RAM Aircraft at ACT
they have a 172, 210 and maybe a 206 that goes dirt cheap as an
employee benefit for rated pilots. $20 bucks an hour wet for the 172,
$40 for the 210!!!! Wow, makes me want to give RAM an application in a
few months when I'm done with school!

Wow, $95 for a 152?! Sheesh...

Enrolled TSTC students enjoy quite the low rates on the schools planes
from what I've heard, which is typical for a part 141 school I think.

Ricky

You know what? Maybe I'll enroll for a semester or two. One class a
semester ... I've wanted to do some A&P stuff anyhow. $90 an hour. All
this talk of user fees pales in comparison -- although those fees in
addition would put me squarely in the VFR only fly-from-your-grass-
airstrip-avoid-control-tower-airspace camp.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
birdog wrote:
As an 80 year old ex-pilot, I am astonished at all this talk about spins
by presumibly experienced pilots! When I went thru training a century
ago, we did spins before we soloed! Of course, virtually every aircraft
in that day was prone to inadvertant spins, whereas GA aircraft today are
almost incapable of spinning. In addition, we were recovering from
unusual attitudes under the hood (needle, ball and airspeed, no gyros)
and recovering from inverted with minimum loss of altitude (don't
remember what the minimum was at the time, but it wasn't much) before we
were signed off as competent of unconditional flight.

I really enjoy this NG, learning a lot about all the aids and equipment
available nowdays, and especially enjoy the discussions on airmanship.

They grounded my ass quite some time ago, but my heart is still in the
air.
Your points are well taken, but in the interest of clarity, I wouldn't
make the comparison between the GA planes of yesterday and today going
quite so far as to say the GA planes today are "almost incapable of
spinning". This simply isn't true, and if the two aerodynamic factors
required for a spin to occur are present, (stall and yaw), the vast
majority of the current crop of the GA fleet will indeed spin.


--
Dudley Henriques

Point well taken. Most of my latter day flying was Tripacers, Cessnas,
Bellancas, Mooneys - not aircraft you would take up to practice aerobatics.
Along the way an Aerobat and a Citabra for foolish endevours. Had an 7AC
Champ that would NOT spin solo. Had an old P51 pilot try it, among others.

birdog wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
birdog wrote:
As an 80 year old ex-pilot, I am astonished at all this talk about spins
by presumibly experienced pilots! When I went thru training a century
ago, we did spins before we soloed! Of course, virtually every aircraft
in that day was prone to inadvertant spins, whereas GA aircraft today are
almost incapable of spinning. In addition, we were recovering from
unusual attitudes under the hood (needle, ball and airspeed, no gyros)
and recovering from inverted with minimum loss of altitude (don't
remember what the minimum was at the time, but it wasn't much) before we
were signed off as competent of unconditional flight.

I really enjoy this NG, learning a lot about all the aids and equipment
available nowdays, and especially enjoy the discussions on airmanship.

They grounded my ass quite some time ago, but my heart is still in the
air.
Your points are well taken, but in the interest of clarity, I wouldn't
make the comparison between the GA planes of yesterday and today going
quite so far as to say the GA planes today are "almost incapable of
spinning". This simply isn't true, and if the two aerodynamic factors
required for a spin to occur are present, (stall and yaw), the vast
majority of the current crop of the GA fleet will indeed spin.


--
Dudley Henriques

Point well taken. Most of my latter day flying was Tripacers, Cessnas,
Bellancas, Mooneys - not aircraft you would take up to practice aerobatics.
Along the way an Aerobat and a Citabra for foolish endevours. Had an 7AC
Champ that would NOT spin solo. Had an old P51 pilot try it, among others.


You and I probably learned to fly around the same period. It's funny
about the "old P51 pilot" and the Champ. I have a few hours in P51's
myself and have spun the Champ many times. I can't explain why the 7AC
you are referring to wouldn't spin, but I've never had problems spinning
them. The only variable I can see in the Champ equation might have been
pilot weight and fuel, but I've never run into this issue with a Champ.
There are several Champ owners on the forum who might be able to shed
some light on why yours wouldn't spin.


--
Dudley Henriques

On Jan 28, 6:32*am, wrote:
On Jan 27, 11:36*pm, Ricky wrote:





On Jan 27, 9:18*pm, wrote:

TSTC has an above-average rating among those
I've talked with so I'm anticipating good instruction.
*...
Ricky

Does TSTC rent planes to anybody but enrolled students of TSTC?

It aggravates me that McGregor is the only place around renting. Up in
Tulsa a 152 rental is 65 an hour wet. At McGregor they've gone up to
90!

Fer Pete's sake ... we need some competion in the HOT.

I'm not in pilot training there, in A&P school, but I am almost
positive the planes are only for students. I did go through part of
their pilot training and at the time, 12 or so years ago, the planes
were student-only.

I just found out tonight that if one works for RAM Aircraft at ACT
they have a 172, 210 and maybe a 206 that goes dirt cheap as an
employee benefit for rated pilots. $20 bucks an hour wet for the 172,
$40 for the 210!!!! Wow, makes me want to give RAM an application in a
few months when I'm done with school!

Wow, $95 for a 152?! Sheesh...

Enrolled TSTC students enjoy quite the low rates on the schools planes
from what I've heard, which is typical for a part 141 school I think.

Ricky

You know what? Maybe I'll enroll for a semester or two. One class a
semester ... I've wanted to do some A&P stuff anyhow. $90 an hour. All
this talk of user fees pales in comparison -- although those fees in
addition would put me squarely in the VFR only fly-from-your-grass-
airstrip-avoid-control-tower-airspace camp.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The TSTC planes are for pilot training students, not maintenance
students (unless I've REALLY missed something).

So if you enrolled you'd need to be in pilot training to get ahold of
the planes. They do allow (I think) use of the TSTC planes on a
personal basis if students aren't reserved in them for instruction.

Ricky

The TSTC planes are for pilot training students, not maintenance
students (unless I've REALLY missed something).

So if you enrolled you'd need to be in pilot training to get ahold of
the planes. They do allow (I think) use of the TSTC planes on a
personal basis if students aren't reserved in them for instruction.

Ricky-

Oh well. Another plan down the tubes!