Experimental FAA registration

I know this has been covered in the past but I need an update. A
fiend is purchasing a glider that is registered experimental under
Racing/Exhibition. It presently has a "letter of operation" that
limits it to 300nm from the home airport. It requires "notification"
to the FAA when moved out of the area. Questions:
-Is this the only way that the "Letters of Operation" are written for
sailplanes?
-The "Letter of Operation" is not very specific on how or how long
before the move, one notifies the FAA. Can it be done by phone, fax,
email, snail mail?
I have had two new experimental sailplanes in the past and did not
have the 300nm or notification restrictions in my "L o O" after the
initial required time was flown.

Any input will be appreciated.

Tom
Idaho

On Jun 5, 9:11 am, " wrote:
I know this has been covered in the past but I need an update. A
fiend is purchasing a glider that is registered experimental under
Racing/Exhibition. It presently has a "letter of operation" that
limits it to 300nm from the home airport. It requires "notification"
to the FAA when moved out of the area. Questions:
-Is this the only way that the "Letters of Operation" are written for
sailplanes?
-The "Letter of Operation" is not very specific on how or how long
before the move, one notifies the FAA. Can it be done by phone, fax,
email, snail mail?
I have had two new experimental sailplanes in the past and did not
have the 300nm or notification restrictions in my "L o O" after the
initial required time was flown.

Any input will be appreciated.

Tom
Idaho

Tom,
It varies from FSDO to FSDO. Obviously the letter of the law says
one thing. When I asked the inspector in San Diego that took care of
my experimental LOA, he basically rolled his eyes and said their real
concern was warbirds and jet trainers that rich pilots are augering in
with regularity. And I was so naive about the LOA that it was only
pointed out to me at my first annual inspection that the Reno issued
LOA didn't cover my glider based in Warner Springs.(I was really
illegal my first year). So technically yes, one should notify the
FAA, but if you really think they care about you towing your glider to
a contest several states away you are mistaken. Just don't
crash! :-)

Dean "GO"

On Jun 5, 9:11*am, " wrote:
I know this has been covered in the past but I need an update.

I believe all FSDO's will issue standard boilerplate documents with
any new certification. The older ones seem to be more liberal and may
have varied from district to district. Mine requires an operations
letter to be submitted every year.

Each year I FAX my operations letter to my local FSDO. I keep it as
general as possible. It includes my intent to fly in Regional and
National contest on dates, and at places, published by Soaring Society
of America. It also states my intent to practice for, and attempt,
record flights in places where weather conditions are suitable.

I have never received any feedback, doubt anyone even reads it, but
keep the FAX receipt anyway.

Andy

On Jun 5, 1:29 pm, Andy wrote:
On Jun 5, 9:11 am, " wrote:

I know this has been covered in the past but I need an update.

I believe all FSDO's will issue standard boilerplate documents with
any new certification. The older ones seem to be more liberal and may
have varied from district to district. Mine requires an operations
letter to be submitted every year.

Each year I FAX my operations letter to my local FSDO. I keep it as
general as possible. It includes my intent to fly in Regional and
National contest on dates, and at places, published by Soaring Society
of America. It also states my intent to practice for, and attempt,
record flights in places where weather conditions are suitable.

I have never received any feedback, doubt anyone even reads it, but
keep the FAX receipt anyway.

Andy

The FAA isn't auditing your compliance. They will check your
compliance should you ever come to their attention.

The specific issue is whether the experimental glider is an import,
and whether it's pre-moratorium or post-moratorium. I've encountered
more than a few post-moratorium owners flying without a valid
airworthiness. It's pretty clearly spelled out in FAA Order 8130.2F
with chg3. Everthing group I or All applies. If you import or buy a
post-moratorium glider, you will need to visit with the FSDO (for
free) or a DAR (for fee). The 300 mile radius does not apply for
every flight and deviations from your annual program letter need to be
faxed to the FSDO.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley

On Jun 5, 1:52 pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Jun 5, 1:29 pm, Andy wrote:



On Jun 5, 9:11 am, " wrote:

I know this has been covered in the past but I need an update.

I believe all FSDO's will issue standard boilerplate documents with
any new certification. The older ones seem to be more liberal and may
have varied from district to district. Mine requires an operations
letter to be submitted every year.

Each year I FAX my operations letter to my local FSDO. I keep it as
general as possible. It includes my intent to fly in Regional and
National contest on dates, and at places, published by Soaring Society
of America. It also states my intent to practice for, and attempt,
record flights in places where weather conditions are suitable.

I have never received any feedback, doubt anyone even reads it, but
keep the FAX receipt anyway.

Andy

The FAA isn't auditing your compliance. They will check your
compliance should you ever come to their attention.

The specific issue is whether the experimental glider is an import,
and whether it's pre-moratorium or post-moratorium. I've encountered
more than a few post-moratorium owners flying without a valid
airworthiness. It's pretty clearly spelled out in FAA Order 8130.2F
with chg3. Everthing group I or All applies. If you import or buy a
post-moratorium glider, you will need to visit with the FSDO (for
free) or a DAR (for fee). The 300 mile radius does not apply for
every flight and deviations from your annual program letter need to be
faxed to the FSDO.

Frank Whiteley

Frank Whiteley

Where is the restriction placed? On the Experimental Airworthiness
Certificate? I have experimental AC, registration but none of those
documents refers to 300 miles restriction. How do I find that out.

Jacek
Pasco, WA

Frank recently alerted me to this issue as well. The moratorium was
in the early-to-mid-90's, and everything imported after that date is
pretty much subject to this stuff. NOTE that I said "imported" - date
of manufacture doesn't play a role, AFAIK.

I did some research, and here's what I've come up with:

The key to look for is whether the letter is called out as part of the
"Operating Limitations". You'll note that almost all Special
Airworthiness certificates (i.e. Experimentals) in recent years state
that the aircraft is subject to all of the Operating Limitations.

If the SA certificate refers to the letter, or the letter talks about
being part of the Operating Limitations (or part of the SA cert
itself), then its a bundled package that you must consider as a single
document. Operating outside of the conditions in the letter is
considered a violation of the Airworthiness certificate itself.

To change the conditions for legal flight, you must have the FSDO or a
DAR come out, look at the aircraft, and draft up a new Airworthiness
Cert and/or Operating Limitations letter.

I've heard that having the current paperwork and a recent annual (and/
or A&P onsite at the time) helps...

Take care,

--Noel

The current FAA Order 8130.2F, Chg 3 has all the information you need.
This is the document your FSDO uses to create the ops limitations for
your experimental glider. If your airworthiness certificate and ops
limitations are pre-1993, then you need to not do anything, unless
your ops limitations specify otherwise. If post 1993, then you have to
follow the requirements of the limitations and the order (it's all in
the order somewhere).

When you fax your annual program letter in to the FSDO, your PI at the
FSDO reads it and then puts it in the file they have on your
experimental aircraft. About the only time it comes back out is when
you have an accident, or otherwise come to the attention of the FSDO,
perhaps a change in limitations, or you want to modify the aircraft or
whatever. At least that what happens in the Seattle FSDO.

Jim

I don't think a new Program letter needs to be sent in each year, unless
there are significant changes (see para 132 of the Order).



At 14:31 06 June 2008, wrote:
The current FAA Order 8130.2F, Chg 3 has all the information you need.
This is the document your FSDO uses to create the ops limitations for
your experimental glider. If your airworthiness certificate and ops
limitations are pre-1993, then you need to not do anything, unless
your ops limitations specify otherwise. If post 1993, then you have to
follow the requirements of the limitations and the order (it's all in
the order somewhere).

When you fax your annual program letter in to the FSDO, your PI at the
FSDO reads it and then puts it in the file they have on your
experimental aircraft. About the only time it comes back out is when
you have an accident, or otherwise come to the attention of the FSDO,
perhaps a change in limitations, or you want to modify the aircraft or
whatever. At least that what happens in the Seattle FSDO.

Jim

andrew

On 6/6/08 9:29 PM, in article , "Andrew
Wood" wrote:

I don't think a new Program letter needs to be sent in each year, unless
there are significant changes (see para 132 of the Order).



At 14:31 06 June 2008, wrote:
The current FAA Order 8130.2F, Chg 3 has all the information you need.
This is the document your FSDO uses to create the ops limitations for
your experimental glider. If your airworthiness certificate and ops
limitations are pre-1993, then you need to not do anything, unless
your ops limitations specify otherwise. If post 1993, then you have to
follow the requirements of the limitations and the order (it's all in
the order somewhere).

When you fax your annual program letter in to the FSDO, your PI at the
FSDO reads it and then puts it in the file they have on your
experimental aircraft. About the only time it comes back out is when
you have an accident, or otherwise come to the attention of the FSDO,
perhaps a change in limitations, or you want to modify the aircraft or
whatever. At least that what happens in the Seattle FSDO.

Jim

andrew

My FSDO definitely requires a new Program Letter every year.

Bullwinkle

Andrew,

Regarding specifically Experimental Exhibition and Racing certificated
gliders that were certificated after July 19, 1993;

Take a look at The Order 8130.2F, CHG 3, Paragraph 161. subparagraph
(37) (page 178) regarding the annual program letter requirement. Looks
to me like if you just do proficiency flying all summer and don't go
to a "sanctioned meet", you might be OK with your original letter. Of
course, per subparagraph (34) that pro flying takes place within a 300
mile radius of your home base airport. Subparagraph (35) is also
interesting reading, but in any case, all the paragraphs have to be
read together in detail ad nauseum to make any sense - and then we
realize we are reading FAA guidance, so making sense may not be the
preferred task outcome.

Don't forget your copy of the "highlighted aeronautical chart" that
you carry with you aboard the aircraft per 161.(37).

While paragraph 132 may appear to be in conflict with the above -
we'll just go with the guidance specific to Exhibition and Racing
certificates, and even more specific to Group 1: Performance
Competition Aircraft, which iswhat the racing glider is defines as by
the FAA..

Paragraph 155.(c) (page 166) states that when the aircraft's base of
operation is changed or a change in ownership occurs, the owner must
notify the local FSDO and provide a copy of the inspection program (if
applicable, not likely for a glider, unless it's a turbine powered
glider) and a copy of the requested proficiency flight area.

Call your local FSDO for guidance specific to their area of operation.
Some FSDO's and aircraft Ops Limitations differ because The Order
allows it, see Paragraph 161, suparagraph a. (page 172) where it
states "The FAA Inspector may impose any additional limitations deemed
necessary in the interest of safety."

Jim