Navy Struggles With 'Fighter Gap'

Ray O'Hara wrote:
wrote in message
...

See:

http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=3466832&c=FEA&s=CVS


What should the Navy do? Buy more F/A-18's? Speed up JSF
procurement?

Or something else?


gap vs who?



Not a Who, vs Time. Arround the 2016 thru 2025 the F-18's will be at
retirment age. That is the Gap. Right now the JSF may not show up till
then...

Fred J. McCall wrote:
wrote:

:See:
:
:http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=3466832&c=FEA&s=CVS
:
:
:What should the Navy do? Buy more F/A-18's? Speed up JSF
rocurement?
:
:Or something else?
:

My personal opinion? Buy more Hornets and cut the F-35C buy in half.
Super Hornets are cheaper than JSF (can probably buy at least 2
Superbugs per JSF), more capable now than F-35C will be when it
fields, and are available NOW. You wind up with equal or greater
capability earlier for less money.

Looking at the difference in price, I'd bet USMC is wishing it had
some replacement alternative for AV-8B other than F-35B. I don't see
how they afford the number of replacement airframes (320) they want
given the price tag of the things. I have to wonder what it would
cost to have Boeing restart the AV-8B production line and start
cranking out updated AV-8's and how much before F-35B they'd be
available.


REstart a Line? IN this economy, not going to happen. Big $$$ for short
term work = DOA. Besides Boeing Has other military contracts to fill. A
P-8, There half of the V-22, Perhaps a Tanker, Not to mention upgrades
on current planes or Fixing the F15 problem.

Tiger wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: wrote:
:
: :See:
: :
: :http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=3466832&c=FEA&s=CVS
: :
: :
: :What should the Navy do? Buy more F/A-18's? Speed up JSF
: rocurement?
: :
: :Or something else?
: :
:
: My personal opinion? Buy more Hornets and cut the F-35C buy in half.
: Super Hornets are cheaper than JSF (can probably buy at least 2
: Superbugs per JSF), more capable now than F-35C will be when it
: fields, and are available NOW. You wind up with equal or greater
: capability earlier for less money.
:
: Looking at the difference in price, I'd bet USMC is wishing it had
: some replacement alternative for AV-8B other than F-35B. I don't see
: how they afford the number of replacement airframes (320) they want
: given the price tag of the things. I have to wonder what it would
: cost to have Boeing restart the AV-8B production line and start
: cranking out updated AV-8's and how much before F-35B they'd be
: available.
:
:
:REstart a Line? IN this economy, not going to happen.
:

It could if it turns out to be cheaper than buying F-35B by a good
bit.

:
:Big $$$ for short term work = DOA.
:

What 'short term'? We're not talking about significantly fewer
aircraft than they built the first time around.

:
:Besides Boeing Has other military contracts to fill. A
:P-8, There half of the V-22, Perhaps a Tanker, Not to mention upgrades
n current planes or Fixing the F15 problem.
:

And of those all, only the F-15 is even built at the same facility.
Why do you think there will be money for an F-15 problem fix? This is
MUCH more 'short term work' than restarting a line and building new
aircraft.

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Apr 8, 4:01*am, Andrew Swallow wrote:
BlackBeard wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:25 pm, Andrew Swallow wrote:
Ray O'Hara wrote:
wrote in message
....
See:
http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=3466832&c=FEA&s=CVS
What should the Navy do? *Buy more F/A-18's? *Speed up JSF
procurement?
Or something else?
gap vs who?
Try the Chinese attack submarines.

Andrew Swallow

I must admit I am lost here. *How does one find relevance between the
OP subject and Attack Subs?

BB

Know thy enemy. *Do not fall into the trap of preparing to
fight the last war but not the next one.

The planes and submarines are enemies. *The Chinese attack
submarines are being built to sink US aircraft carriers. *See
previous posts on sci.military.naval. *There may be sufficient
submarines to make a gap through the escort ships.

Since aircraft carriers do not have large guns and torpedoes have a
longer range than depth charges the carrier will have to rely on
its aircraft for defence. *So what ever aircraft are purchased for
the ship will need the ability to find and/or sink submarines.

That's not the way the navy buys carriers, though.
They buy nuclear reactors plus dock time plus a half dozen
DDG's, CGs, and P3's to go with them.
Since the fighter jets are always doing something else.





So as well as top gun vs top gun the US Navy needs to do top gun
vs bottom gun.

Andrew Swallow- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Fred J. McCall wrote:
wrote:

:See:
:
:http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=3466832&c=FEA&s=CVS
:
:
:What should the Navy do? Buy more F/A-18's? Speed up JSF
rocurement?
:
:Or something else?
:

My personal opinion? Buy more Hornets and cut the F-35C buy in half.
Super Hornets are cheaper than JSF (can probably buy at least 2
Superbugs per JSF), more capable now than F-35C will be when it
fields, and are available NOW. You wind up with equal or greater
capability earlier for less money.

Looking at the difference in price, I'd bet USMC is wishing it had
some replacement alternative for AV-8B other than F-35B. I don't see
how they afford the number of replacement airframes (320) they want
given the price tag of the things. I have to wonder what it would
cost to have Boeing restart the AV-8B production line and start
cranking out updated AV-8's and how much before F-35B they'd be
available.


Ouch. Do you have any idea those things (AV-8B) are to OUR guys?

Dan

Andrew Swallow wrote:
BlackBeard wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:25 pm, Andrew Swallow wrote:
Ray O'Hara wrote:
wrote in message
...

See:
http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=3466832&c=FEA&s=CVS
What should the Navy do? Buy more F/A-18's? Speed up JSF
procurement?
Or something else?
gap vs who?
Try the Chinese attack submarines.

Andrew Swallow

I must admit I am lost here. How does one find relevance between the
OP subject and Attack Subs?

BB

Know thy enemy. Do not fall into the trap of preparing to
fight the last war but not the next one.

The planes and submarines are enemies. The Chinese attack
submarines are being built to sink US aircraft carriers. See
previous posts on sci.military.naval. There may be sufficient
submarines to make a gap through the escort ships.

Since aircraft carriers do not have large guns and torpedoes have a
longer range than depth charges the carrier will have to rely on
its aircraft for defence. So what ever aircraft are purchased for
the ship will need the ability to find and/or sink submarines.

So as well as top gun vs top gun the US Navy needs to do top gun
vs bottom gun.

Andrew Swallow

All very interesting, but what has that interesting trivia to do with
fighter gaps?

Dan

Tiger wrote:
Andrew Swallow wrote:

Know thy enemy. Do not fall into the trap of preparing to
fight the last war but not the next one.

The planes and submarines are enemies. The Chinese attack
submarines are being built to sink US aircraft carriers. See
previous posts on sci.military.naval. There may be sufficient
submarines to make a gap through the escort ships.

Since aircraft carriers do not have large guns and torpedoes have a
longer range than depth charges the carrier will have to rely on
its aircraft for defence. So what ever aircraft are purchased for
the ship will need the ability to find and/or sink submarines.

So as well as top gun vs top gun the US Navy needs to do top gun
vs bottom gun.

Andrew Swallow

Good point. The retirement of the S-3 And the slow new production of a
P-3 replacement does leave a real gap in capability. While low and slow
and boring, ASW is a need part of Nav air that a F-18 can't fill.


The mixture of aircraft will need thinking through. Assuming the enemy
is going to be Arabs and Chinese.

Andrew Swallow

Dan wrote:
Andrew Swallow wrote:
BlackBeard wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:25 pm, Andrew Swallow wrote:
Ray O'Hara wrote:
wrote in message
...

See:
http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=3466832&c=FEA&s=CVS
What should the Navy do? Buy more F/A-18's? Speed up JSF
procurement?
Or something else?
gap vs who?
Try the Chinese attack submarines.

Andrew Swallow

I must admit I am lost here. How does one find relevance between the
OP subject and Attack Subs?

BB

Know thy enemy. Do not fall into the trap of preparing to
fight the last war but not the next one.

The planes and submarines are enemies. The Chinese attack
submarines are being built to sink US aircraft carriers. See
previous posts on sci.military.naval. There may be sufficient
submarines to make a gap through the escort ships.

Since aircraft carriers do not have large guns and torpedoes have a
longer range than depth charges the carrier will have to rely on
its aircraft for defence. So what ever aircraft are purchased for
the ship will need the ability to find and/or sink submarines.

So as well as top gun vs top gun the US Navy needs to do top gun
vs bottom gun.

Andrew Swallow

All very interesting, but what has that interesting trivia to do with
fighter gaps?

Dan

Everything - your fighters have the wrong armaments and sensors.

Andrew Swallow

Dan wrote:
Fred J. McCall wrote:
wrote:

:See:
:
:http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=3466832&c=FEA&s=CVS
:
:
:What should the Navy do? Buy more F/A-18's? Speed up JSF
rocurement?
:
:Or something else?
:

My personal opinion? Buy more Hornets and cut the F-35C buy in half.
Super Hornets are cheaper than JSF (can probably buy at least 2
Superbugs per JSF), more capable now than F-35C will be when it
fields, and are available NOW. You wind up with equal or greater
capability earlier for less money.

Looking at the difference in price, I'd bet USMC is wishing it had
some replacement alternative for AV-8B other than F-35B. I don't see
how they afford the number of replacement airframes (320) they want
given the price tag of the things. I have to wonder what it would
cost to have Boeing restart the AV-8B production line and start
cranking out updated AV-8's and how much before F-35B they'd be
available.


Ouch. Do you have any idea How Dangerous those things (AV-8B) are to OUR guys?

Dan

Oops. I forgot a couple of words.

Dan

Dan wrote:
Dan wrote:

Fred J. McCall wrote:

wrote:

:See:
:
:http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=3466832&c=FEA&s=CVS
:
:
:What should the Navy do? Buy more F/A-18's? Speed up JSF
rocurement?
:
:Or something else?
:

My personal opinion? Buy more Hornets and cut the F-35C buy in half.
Super Hornets are cheaper than JSF (can probably buy at least 2
Superbugs per JSF), more capable now than F-35C will be when it
fields, and are available NOW. You wind up with equal or greater
capability earlier for less money.

Looking at the difference in price, I'd bet USMC is wishing it had
some replacement alternative for AV-8B other than F-35B. I don't see
how they afford the number of replacement airframes (320) they want
given the price tag of the things. I have to wonder what it would
cost to have Boeing restart the AV-8B production line and start
cranking out updated AV-8's and how much before F-35B they'd be
available.


Ouch. Do you have any idea How Dangerous those things (AV-8B)
are to OUR guys?

Dan


Oops. I forgot a couple of words.

Dan

No more dangerous than the F4U, F7U or F8 were back in the day. Hard to
fly, but the rep is overblown. There have always been birds that tend to
get that dangerous label.