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Pazmany PL4



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 25th 08, 09:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Peter Dohm
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Posts: 1,754
Default Pazmany PL4

"Rich S." wrote in message
...
"JohnO" wrote . . .

The Nigerian Airforce has RV6's.


France had some Emeraudes, but they were the certified European production
model.

Does that mean that RV6's, Emeraudes, and any other of the ilk are
qualified to park on the Warbird line? That'd be kinda neat! Those big
iron drivers always seem to get good parking and "crew members" with great
looking tushes. )

Rich S.

Those alleged crew members are actually "Hangar Princesses" since those old
heavy iron warbirds are the real "Hangar Queens"

Peter
Striving for accuracy and tradition in nomenclature. ;-)



  #12  
Old February 26th 08, 03:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
[email protected]
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Posts: 77
Default Pazmany PL4

On Feb 25, 3:41*pm, "Peter Dohm" wrote:
"Rich S." wrote in message

... "JohnO" wrote . . .

The Nigerian Airforce has RV6's.


France had some Emeraudes, but they were the certified European production
model.


Does that mean that RV6's, Emeraudes, and any other of the ilk are
qualified to park on the Warbird line? That'd be kinda neat! Those big
iron drivers always seem to get good parking and "crew members" with great
looking tushes. *)


Rich S.


Those alleged crew members are actually "Hangar Princesses" since those old
heavy iron warbirds are the real "Hangar Queens"

Peter
Striving for accuracy and tradition in nomenclature. *;-)


We must not forget that the Peruvian Air Force bought a fleet of CGS
Hawks, however I've only heard what may be an urban legend about one
being armed. I think that it was a test of the super strafer model
during the great Ohio paint ball war.

If you read Pazmany's book " Light Airplane Construction for amateur
builders" you will see that the PL series of planes looks pretty work
intensive. More like a factory built than your basic homebuilt. Looks
like 16 ribs on each wing and 7 bulkheads in the tailcone. It is well
put together and no doubt a strong design ,but complicated to build.

Frank M.Hitlaw at my secret World Hq
  #13  
Old February 26th 08, 07:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
flybynightkarmarepair
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Posts: 106
Default Pazmany PL4

On Feb 24, 9:17 am, "(Keith Sowter)"
wrote:
Why were there not many Pazmany PL4's built ?

Here's one I saw Fly back in 1982 at Red Deer Alberta

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1019962/


Here's what I said about it on my website on VW powered homebuilts:

"Conventional gear single seat low wing all metal T-tail Aerobatic.
Laszlo got tired of taking heat for how long it took amateurs to build
PL-2's, and the energy crisis was upon us, so he designed a VW-powered
plane that only took 3000 hours instead of 6000 hours to build. The
belt reduction 1600cc engine didn't make the power he thought it
would, and very few, if any, other than the prototype, were actually
built with the engine it was designed for. A rugged, well engineered
airplane, with exceptional plans and builder's manual. I'll say that
again, you will not find a finer set of plans, and the assembly manual
is a complete education in building a metal airplane. I'll bet with a
bigger engine, and one of the Smith Engineering belt reductions that
GPASC sells it would go pretty good."

I've since heard from Veeduber (who knew Pazmany, and flew out of the
same airport as the prototype) that you could smell the first ship
before you could see it, as it burned, errr flew off the first 40
hours with the belts constantly slipping.

They ARE hell for stout, plus/minus 9G I think.
  #14  
Old February 26th 08, 08:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
[email protected]
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Posts: 472
Default Pazmany PL4

On Feb 25, 10:58 pm, flybynightkarmarepair wrote:

I've since heard from Veeduber (who knew Pazmany, and flew out of the
same airport as the prototype) that you could smell the first ship
before you could see it, as it burned, errr flew off the first 40
hours with the belts constantly slipping.
------------------------------------------------------------------


Well... mebbe it wasn't quite that bad... :-) But with multiple vee
belts it's impossible to keep ALL of them at the same tension. The
loosest of them would slip and there was a definite pong of hot rubber
after every flight.

Several of us who had experience flying behind VW's (Paz wasn't a
pilot back then) tried to explain the realities of VW engines to Paz
but he made it pretty clear that our experience-based opinions were
not welcome. (Come to think of it, a kid named Burt Something did
exactly the same :-)

In the final analysis the PL-4 -- at nearly 700 pounds -- is a heavy,
complex, expensive airframe that needs more power than a stock 1600 VW
engine can provide. With the same engine, a Teenie Two can fly rings
around it and is a lot easier to land, while a VP-1 is more fun than
either. But of course, those aren't 'real' airplanes... :-)

-R.S.Hoover


  #17  
Old February 26th 08, 10:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Beryl[_2_]
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Posts: 9
Default Pazmany PL4

cavelamb himself wrote:

Beryl wrote:

wrote:

On Feb 25, 10:58 pm, flybynightkarmarepair wrote:


I've since heard from Veeduber (who knew Pazmany, and flew out of the
same airport as the prototype) that you could smell the first ship
before you could see it, as it burned, errr flew off the first 40
hours with the belts constantly slipping.
------------------------------------------------------------------




Well... mebbe it wasn't quite that bad... :-) But with multiple vee
belts it's impossible to keep ALL of them at the same tension. The
loosest of them would slip and there was a definite pong of hot rubber
after every flight.




Eh? I can't visualize it. Either all, or none, slip.



Nope. That's not how it works, Beryl.

Oh, maybe if all the belts really were teh exact same size.
Or if the pulleys were really exactly parallel.

In the real world neither of thoese little details ever work out - quite
that exactly.

The biggest one slips.

How can you tell which is the biggest one?
Easy.
It's the one that slips!

As tehy say, YMMV...



Richard


My mileage varies. I tink teh biggest belt is just along for teh ride.
And in teh real world, even teh tightiest belt slips if you're talking
about microscopically wobbling pulleys.
  #18  
Old February 26th 08, 12:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
JohnO
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Posts: 120
Default Pazmany PL4

On Feb 26, 8:23*am, cavelamb himself wrote:
Beryl wrote:
wrote:


On Feb 25, 10:58 pm, flybynightkarmarepair wrote:


I've since heard from Veeduber (who knew Pazmany, and flew out of the
same airport as the prototype) that you could smell the first ship
before you could see it, as it burned, errr flew off the first 40
hours with the belts constantly slipping.
------------------------------------------------------------------


Well... mebbe it wasn't quite that bad... :-) *But with multiple vee
belts it's impossible to keep ALL of them at the same tension. *The
loosest of them would slip and there was a definite pong of hot rubber
after every flight.


Eh? I can't visualize it. Either all, or none, slip.


Nope. *That's not how it works, Beryl.

Oh, maybe if all the belts really were teh exact same size.
Or if the pulleys were really exactly parallel.

In the real world neither of thoese little details ever work out - quite
that exactly.

The biggest one slips.

How can you tell which is the biggest one?
Easy.
It's the one that slips!

As tehy say, YMMV...

Richard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Caveman, you cannot have one belt slipping and not the others. Think
about it - the pulleys on each shaft are all the same size and
rotating at the same speed. You can only have slip if one pulley is
rotating at a different speed to the other. If one slips they *must*
all slip.
  #20  
Old February 26th 08, 03:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Drew Dalgleish
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Posts: 143
Default Pazmany PL4

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:00:47 -0800 (PST), JohnO
wrote:

On Feb 26, 8:23=A0am, cavelamb himself wrote:
Beryl wrote:
wrote:


On Feb 25, 10:58 pm, flybynightkarmarepair wrote:


I've since heard from Veeduber (who knew Pazmany, and flew out of the
same airport as the prototype) that you could smell the first ship
before you could see it, as it burned, errr flew off the first 40
hours with the belts constantly slipping.
------------------------------------------------------------------


Well... mebbe it wasn't quite that bad... :-) =A0But with multiple vee
belts it's impossible to keep ALL of them at the same tension. =A0The
loosest of them would slip and there was a definite pong of hot rubber
after every flight.


Eh? I can't visualize it. Either all, or none, slip.


Nope. =A0That's not how it works, Beryl.

Oh, maybe if all the belts really were teh exact same size.
Or if the pulleys were really exactly parallel.

In the real world neither of thoese little details ever work out - quite
that exactly.

The biggest one slips.

How can you tell which is the biggest one?
Easy.
It's the one that slips!

As tehy say, YMMV...

Richard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Caveman, you cannot have one belt slipping and not the others. Think
about it - the pulleys on each shaft are all the same size and
rotating at the same speed. You can only have slip if one pulley is
rotating at a different speed to the other. If one slips they *must*
all slip.


The longest one slips on both pulleys.
 




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