initial fix an intersection

Snowbird wrote:

Why can't you just navigate to the intersection with
two VORs? Isn't that taught?


There's the concept of "positive course guidance". As far as I know it's not
codified anywhere, it's just recognized by some as good practice. I asked the
same questions, in this same forum, a long time ago, and I came away from that
encounter convinced that positive course guidance is a good thing. I now file
flight plans that use only positive course guidance.

In other words, the initial fix on my route is a ground based navaid of some
kind. If I had a certified GPS, I would have no heartburn about using some
random intersection as an initial fix.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"SFM" wrote in message
...

Why is it bad flight planning to use an intersection for your initial fix

on

your IFR flight?



It isn't.



As long as you can navigate to it.


Matt

Snowbird wrote:
David Megginson wrote in message ...


I've never heard the issue discussed, myself, but I imagine that the
problem would be navigating to the intersection from the airport if
you didn't have an IFR GPS and you were not starting out on one of the
intersecting airways.


Why can't you just navigate to the intersection with
two VORs? Isn't that taught?

One VOR, I wouldn't care to attempt myself. Would want to
be established on an airway.

Cheers,
Sydney

It is pretty hard to fly a straight line using two VORs, unless you are
on a line between one of the VORs and the intersection.


Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

As long as you can navigate to it.


One should not file what one cannot fly.

"SFM" wrote in message
...
Why is it bad flight planning to use an intersection for your initial fix
on
your IFR flight?

Who said it was? It's the only way to depart some airports and it's safe. It
is also what the DUATS flight plan route generation will give you
automagically if a VOR isn't in the right spot.

My instrument practical started at a small airport (Angwin, 2O3) without
instrument procedures and navigating to POPES as the initial fix of a
mythical IFR flight was the first item on the agenda. It's like any fix. You
choose to intercept one radial or the other with a reasonable intercept
angle, and go from there. You can even just fly a heading towards the fix
and try to keep the picture just so, but chances are one of those radials is
going to be your course for awhile and it's a bit easier to intercept that
one first, even if you have a VFR GPS for situational awareness

The standard departure from Grass Valley (O17) used to be a heading to
intercept an airway to a fix. Really no different. You don't need to be able
to establish an instrument course with positive guidance direct to the fix
to know where you are. You've got a compass, a HI, and know what the
indicator needles should look like when keeping within the bounds of those
two radials.


My plan has two NAVs and an IFR GPS. So I have at least 3 ways to identify
the intersection granted doing it with one NAV is painful during departure
but it could be done. I curious to hear people opinions.

I did some IFR training in my PA-28 before I got a second KX-155 installed.
It was very difficult for me, I hated spinning the OBS around. Too many
numbers to remember . Got easier with a DVOR readout added but didn't
finish up the rating until that second radio got installed. Can't imagine
passing the practical with one radio, but it's nice to know I could get
around with only one, even without a handheld GPS. ATC would probably make
life easier after a failure than the DE would without the equipment
installed.

There is a dual DVOR indicator with a morse ID decoder on the market. If I
didn't already have a DVOR on my #2 NAV I'd probably install the indicator.
It's very nice if one needs to go direct to a VOR (like on a missed) and be
able to read directly the heading to turn towards, and both it and your
heading tend to converge to something inbetween. The OBS can be spun
directly to the inbound course without overshoot. Very handy. It's also nice
to have a digital readout of a radial used for the fix to watch and make a
mental check against one's view of reality while the needle remains fully
deflected.

cheers
-Greg
PP ASEL IA


Scott

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MI-150972
PP-ASEL

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