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#11
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"Pechs1" wrote in message
Bill- The people who are here unlawfully are generally doing work citizens won't do (like hard physical labor in the landscape industry or demeaning jobs like bussing tables and doing dishes elsewhere or stooped over in fields picking stuff for your table). Should we round 'em all up and have an "illegal alien drive"? BRBR Yes, the operative word here is 'illegal'. What other laws are ok to break? If the gent is doing a service for the city, county, etc, it's ok for them to break the law?? No, not at all. Yet there are about 10-12 million of them. Or, as Lenin once put it, "Quantity is a quality of its own."g The only reason they are "illegal" is because a statute or regulation makes them so. Crossing an artificial line is not a crime "malum in se." IMO most of the these statutes and regulations are nothing more than an expression of hostility towards little, brown men who don't speak English. If our southern neighbor were Sweden or Germany and the illegals all looked like Anita Ekberg or Ursula Andress (or maybe Rutger Hauer) then I don't think we would be having this discussion. A brief walk through U.S. immigration law (including its roots in the hostility towards such "inferior races" as Irishmen, Dutchmen, etc.) might give you different perspective. If figure anybody who wants to work should get a big, "COME ON DOWN!" Bill If we do that who's gonna cut your grass or clean up after at at Applebees or fill your larder with produce and mushrooms? BRBR The problem isn't citizens not wanting to do the work, it is employers who hire these people breaking the law to save $, savings that are not passed on to you. Well, no. Ever try to hire agricultural labor? I have offered as much as $15/hr. cash and had no takers for such tasks as bucking hay, weedeating fencelines, mucking stalls, etc. I can make a quick trip over to Lenoir City and hire a crew for an 8 hour day at $50/head. And those sons of bitches will work their butts off for that $50 (where if I hire 'Mericans I will have to do constant "over the shoulder" supervision). My friends in the industries noted tell me the similar stories. Plus the corrupt country that the individual chooses to leave(read-Mexico). Indeed. Our borders are a walk in the country to anybody that wants to come here. Money should be allocated to protect our borders, period. Applebees will find somebody to bus tables, believe me. I agree on a system of regularization. The idea that you can slam the door shut and nail it tight is fantasy. Bill Kambic If, by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or unintentionally, displayed any breedist, disciplinist, sexist, racist, culturalist, nationalist, regionalist, localist, ageist, lookist, ableist, sizeist, speciesist, intellectualist, socioeconomicist, ethnocentrist, phallocentrist, heteropatriarchalist, or other violation of the rules of political correctness, known or unknown, I am not sorry and I encourage you to get over it. |
#12
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Woody, by that rationale, we need to sortie our invasion forces immediately to
attack Iran and North Korea at a minimum. We know they have WMD, we know they'll use them. Ergo, we go to war immediately, without anyone agreeing with us. No matter how frustrating it is to deal with the UN, we either use them as the 'oversight committee' for the world, or we take on the role of Big Brother for the rest of humanity. Given that we turned out to be wrong in this case, I imagine it will only be one or two more such incidents before we have sanctions placed upon us, for the very reason that we put them on others. George Bush declared Saddam would be gone. Two presidential cycles later, his son took power and completed his father's tasking; WMD was an excuse to give his 'change of regime' plan some validity. As for the well-known and often mentioned chem attack on the Kurdish village - the CIA released information that the chemicals used did not match the fingerprint of Iraqi stocks, but did match the gas in Iranian inventory. But since that CIA report two, three years ago, it seems to have been forgotten and Saddam gets the blame. Did he use agents in combat? With surity - but not in that case that seems to be ritually used to prove Bush's case against him. I think if Bush had come right out and said, "This turd needs to get flushed but instead of using a flimsy excuse that 80% of the world will not agree with, I am going to finish the job my dad started," folks would have had less trouble with his decision to unilaterally invade another country. v/r Gordon |
#13
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In article , "Bill Kambic"
wrote: The only reason they are "illegal" is because a statute or regulation makes them so. The only reason murder is illegal because some silly statute or regulation makes it so. Crossing an artificial line is not a crime "malum in se." When that artficial line happens to be a sovereign nation's border and you lack legal standing to do so...it is a crime. Bill If we do that who's gonna cut your grass or clean up after at at Applebees or fill your larder with produce and mushrooms? BRBR The problem isn't citizens not wanting to do the work, it is employers who hire these people breaking the law to save $, savings that are not passed on to you. Well, no. Ever try to hire agricultural labor? I have offered as much as $15/hr. cash and had no takers for such tasks as bucking hay, weedeating fencelines, mucking stalls, etc. I can make a quick trip over to Lenoir City and hire a crew for an 8 hour day at $50/head. And those sons of bitches will work their butts off for that $50 (where if I hire 'Mericans I will have to do constant "over the shoulder" supervision). Great, so he illegally comes on down with his wife and children to work your plantation for a periodic $50/day. In the meantime, where does the money to pay for his and his family's health care come from? Where does the money to school his children come from? Are you willing to assume the real costs of health care, education, law enforcement, etc. spent on these workers? Or are you just content to get cheap illegal labor and let the tax-payers foot the bill for all the city, county, and state services these people use? Not a bad gig you got going: get the benefits of cheap labor while making society as a whole pay the real costs. --Mike |
#14
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"Krztalizer" wrote in message
... Woody, by that rationale, we need to sortie our invasion forces immediately to attack Iran and North Korea at a minimum. We know they have WMD, we know they'll use them. Ergo, we go to war immediately, without anyone agreeing with us. No matter how frustrating it is to deal with the UN, we either use them as the 'oversight committee' for the world, or we take on the role of Big Brother for the rest of humanity. Given that we turned out to be wrong in this case, I imagine it will only be one or two more such incidents before we have sanctions placed upon us, for the very reason that we put them on others. George Bush declared Saddam would be gone. Two presidential cycles later, his son took power and completed his father's tasking; WMD was an excuse to give his 'change of regime' plan some validity. As for the well-known and often mentioned chem attack on the Kurdish village - the CIA released information that the chemicals used did not match the fingerprint of Iraqi stocks, but did match the gas in Iranian inventory. But since that CIA report two, three years ago, it seems to have been forgotten and Saddam gets the blame. Did he use agents in combat? With surity - but not in that case that seems to be ritually used to prove Bush's case against him. I think if Bush had come right out and said, "This turd needs to get flushed but instead of using a flimsy excuse that 80% of the world will not agree with, I am going to finish the job my dad started," folks would have had less trouble with his decision to unilaterally invade another country. v/r Gordon Isn't it amazing how we ignore/revise history when politically convenient? The Iraqi Liberation Act passed the House of Representatives by a vote of 360 to 38; the Senate vote was unanimous. Please note the content of the Act, and, most especially, its date: http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/i...bact103198.pdf Where are all those big Congressional boosters today? Are they buried in a trench somewhere above or below the WMD? Also, the date that the House of Representatives formally commenced investigation of a potential impeachment may be more than just a coincidence. Just a bit of bipartisan musing over a couple of the many "October Surprises" in our political history... Rick -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#15
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"Michael Wise" wrote in message
The only reason they are "illegal" is because a statute or regulation makes them so. The only reason murder is illegal because some silly statute or regulation makes it so. No, Sir. Murder is a crime "malum in se" (wrong in itself) in every culture I am aware of. So is stealing and lying. Crossing an artificial line is not a crime "malum in se." When that artficial line happens to be a sovereign nation's border and you lack legal standing to do so...it is a crime. I agree it's a crime; but it's a crime "malum prohibitum" (wrong because it's forbidden) not an act that is wrong in and of itself. Bill If we do that who's gonna cut your grass or clean up after at at Applebees or fill your larder with produce and mushrooms? BRBR The problem isn't citizens not wanting to do the work, it is employers who hire these people breaking the law to save $, savings that are not passed on to you. Well, no. Ever try to hire agricultural labor? I have offered as much as $15/hr. cash and had no takers for such tasks as bucking hay, weedeating fencelines, mucking stalls, etc. I can make a quick trip over to Lenoir City and hire a crew for an 8 hour day at $50/head. And those sons of bitches will work their butts off for that $50 (where if I hire 'Mericans I will have to do constant "over the shoulder" supervision). Great, so he illegally comes on down with his wife and children to work your plantation for a periodic $50/day. In the meantime, where does the money to pay for his and his family's health care come from? Where does the money to school his children come from? He does not have any of these benefits in TN. e you willing to assume the real costs of health care, education, law enforcement, etc. spent on these workers? Or are you just content to get cheap illegal labor and let the tax-payers foot the bill for all the city, county, and state services these people use? Not a bad gig you got going: get the benefits of cheap labor while making society as a whole pay the real costs. I'm not saying it's right, I'm pointing out an economic reality that those who specialize in hatred of those not like them don't ever care to acknowledge. Note, also, that I never said I hired any of these guys, only that I could if I wished. The answer is not 10 divisions on the southern border, but a system that recognizes reality and does not pander to the prejudices of those who hate anybody not like themselves. Bill Kambic If, by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or unintentionally, displayed any breedist, disciplinist, sexist, racist, culturalist, nationalist, regionalist, localist, ageist, lookist, ableist, sizeist, speciesist, intellectualist, socioeconomicist, ethnocentrist, phallocentrist, heteropatriarchalist, or other violation of the rules of political correctness, known or unknown, I am not sorry and I encourage you to get over it. |
#16
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In article , "Bill Kambic"
wrote: The only reason they are "illegal" is because a statute or regulation makes them so. The only reason murder is illegal because some silly statute or regulation makes it so. No, Sir. Murder is a crime "malum in se" (wrong in itself) in every culture I am aware of. So is stealing and lying. Crossing an artificial line is not a crime "malum in se." When that artficial line happens to be a sovereign nation's border and you lack legal standing to do so...it is a crime. I agree it's a crime; but it's a crime "malum prohibitum" (wrong because it's forbidden) not an act that is wrong in and of itself. So you're saying its OK for you disregard or flout any law you like....provided the law is "malum prohibitum"? Bill If we do that who's gonna cut your grass or clean up after at at Applebees or fill your larder with produce and mushrooms? BRBR The problem isn't citizens not wanting to do the work, it is employers who hire these people breaking the law to save $, savings that are not passed on to you. Well, no. Ever try to hire agricultural labor? I have offered as much as $15/hr. cash and had no takers for such tasks as bucking hay, weedeating fencelines, mucking stalls, etc. I can make a quick trip over to Lenoir City and hire a crew for an 8 hour day at $50/head. And those sons of bitches will work their butts off for that $50 (where if I hire 'Mericans I will have to do constant "over the shoulder" supervision). Great, so he illegally comes on down with his wife and children to work your plantation for a periodic $50/day. In the meantime, where does the money to pay for his and his family's health care come from? Where does the money to school his children come from? He does not have any of these benefits in TN. BS. What happens when he or any one of his family members get sick, pregnant or injured? Are you saying hospital emergency rooms turn them away? If not, who pays?? What do his school-age kids do during the day? They go to school. Who pays for that? When an illegal alien is involved in a crime (whether it be as a victim or a perpetrator), who pays for the law enforcement costs? The prosecution costs? The incarceration costs? It's great you can find people to work their asses off on your plantation for $50/day...but all you're doing is personally profitting from illegal labor....while letting your neighbors pay the real cost of that cheap illegal labor. e you willing to assume the real costs of health care, education, law enforcement, etc. spent on these workers? Or are you just content to get cheap illegal labor and let the tax-payers foot the bill for all the city, county, and state services these people use? Not a bad gig you got going: get the benefits of cheap labor while making society as a whole pay the real costs. I'm not saying it's right, I see. At least you have the balls to admit what you're doing is wrong that you are perfectly content to make your neighbors pay the real costs of your cheap labor. I'm pointing out an economic reality that those who specialize in hatred of those not like them don't ever care to acknowledge. You're the only person mentioning hatred of anybody here. Obviously you're well-versed in defending your wrong (by your own admission) and illegal ways by trying to make it an argument about race. Note, also, that I never said I hired any of these guys, only that I could if I wished You said: Ever try to hire agricultural labor? I have offered as much as $15/hr. cash and had no takers for such tasks as bucking hay, weedeating fencelines, mucking stalls, etc. I can make a quick trip over to Lenoir City and hire a crew for an 8 hour day at $50/head. And those sons of bitches will work their butts off for that $50 (where if I hire 'Mericans I will have to do constant "over the shoulder" supervision). How can you possibly know you can get illegal labor for $50/day if you hadn't in fact done so? How can you possibly know those "sons of bitches" will works their asses of for that $50 if you hadn't hired those "sons of bitches"? The answer is not 10 divisions on the southern border, but a system that recognizes reality and does not pander to the prejudices of those who hate anybody not like themselves. I'm sure that dog-eared race card of yours sits in your shirt pocket for quick use as a red herring tool for you, but you're the only person here talking about hate. --Mike |
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"Michael Wise" wrote in message
So you're saying its OK for you disregard or flout any law you like....provided the law is "malum prohibitum"? Maybe. Rosa Parks was committing a crime when she refused to move to the back of the bus. Most of our Founders were not only felons but traitors in 1775. Kinds of depends on the circumstances. I'm not saying it's right, I see. At least you have the balls to admit what you're doing is wrong that you are perfectly content to make your neighbors pay the real costs of your cheap labor. I said I never hired them; only that I knew where to do so. I also can take you to most of the active drug locations in the county. If you want a hit man I can probably point you in that direction, too. Not that I would, only that I could. Since I work as a part time prosecutor in our local DA's office I try to conform my personal behavior to the standard of Ceasar's Wife. Or, put another way, I know more than I do. If you were a Naval Aviator then I would bet that in your career you made one or more choices to violate some regulation 'cause in your view at the time it was a Good Thing to do. Indeed, if you ever wore anybody's uniform at any rank or rate I suspect that you have done the same thing. I'm pointing out an economic reality that those who specialize in hatred of those not like them don't ever care to acknowledge. You're the only person mentioning hatred of anybody here. Obviously you're well-versed in defending your wrong (by your own admission) and illegal ways by trying to make it an argument about race. I have committed no wrong. I only point out this wrong is determined by the vagarities of time time and place, not some external code of morality. This concept clearly escapes you. Note, also, that I never said I hired any of these guys, only that I could if I wished You said: Ever try to hire agricultural labor? I have offered as much as $15/hr. cash and had no takers for such tasks as bucking hay, weedeating fencelines, mucking stalls, etc. I can make a quick trip over to Lenoir City and hire a crew for an 8 hour day at $50/head. And those sons of bitches will work their butts off for that $50 (where if I hire 'Mericans I will have to do constant "over the shoulder" supervision). How can you possibly know you can get illegal labor for $50/day if you hadn't in fact done so? How do you know what the speed of light is? Did you personally measure it? Or are you sentient enought to be able to read a book. Or talk to neighbors? Or watch CNN? Personal experience is only one form of learning. How can you possibly know those "sons of bitches" will works their asses of for that $50 if you hadn't hired those "sons of bitches"? See above. (P.S. Your cross examination technique sux. Quit watching "Law and Order" and go sit through some trials at your local court house.) The answer is not 10 divisions on the southern border, but a system that recognizes reality and does not pander to the prejudices of those who hate anybody not like themselves. I'm sure that dog-eared race card of yours sits in your shirt pocket for quick use as a red herring tool for you, but you're the only person here talking about hate. I know a thing or two about hate, gathered in my years as a Naval Officer, attorney, and sentient human being. Like the umpire, I calls it like I sees it. Bill Kambic |
#18
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In article , "Bill Kambic"
wrote: So you're saying its OK for you disregard or flout any law you like....provided the law is "malum prohibitum"? Maybe. Rosa Parks was committing a crime when she refused to move to the back of the bus. I guess that means you don't intend on answering the question, but instead will reach into your shirt pocket and once again pull out your dog-eared race card? Since you're now claiming to be a part-time prosecuting attorney, can I also ask you if its common practice that when you ask or are asked a question on your job...that you ignore it and simply answer with a question...and an inappropriate one at that? I'm not saying it's right, I see. At least you have the balls to admit what you're doing is wrong that you are perfectly content to make your neighbors pay the real costs of your cheap labor. I said I never hired them; only that I knew where to do so. You said you knew where do do so, exactly what would be the cost, and that you know how the worker would perform. I also can take you to most of the active drug locations in the county. If you want a hit man I can probably point you in that direction, too. Not that I would, only that I could. And you could also tell me what this hit man would charge and how effective he would be at his trade (work ethic, end result, etc.)? I'm pointing out an economic reality that those who specialize in hatred of those not like them don't ever care to acknowledge. You're the only person mentioning hatred of anybody here. Obviously you're well-versed in defending your wrong (by your own admission) and illegal ways by trying to make it an argument about race. I have committed no wrong. I only point out this wrong is determined by the vagarities of time time and place, not some external code of morality. Are are most laws which govern our as well as societies around the world. Does that excuse violating them? Note, also, that I never said I hired any of these guys, only that I could if I wished You said: Ever try to hire agricultural labor? I have offered as much as $15/hr. cash and had no takers for such tasks as bucking hay, weedeating fencelines, mucking stalls, etc. I can make a quick trip over to Lenoir City and hire a crew for an 8 hour day at $50/head. And those sons of bitches will work their butts off for that $50 (where if I hire 'Mericans I will have to do constant "over the shoulder" supervision). How can you possibly know you can get illegal labor for $50/day if you hadn't in fact done so? How do you know what the speed of light is? Because it is well documented by credible scientists and has stood the test of time with physicists the world over. Did you personally measure it? See above. Or are you sentient enought to be able to read a book. Or talk to neighbors? Or watch CNN? Sentient enough to read and pass judgement on empiral scientific evidence accepted by the entire world. Are you tring to suggest that your commentary on illegal aliens to work your plantation is backed by similar evidence? If so, you'll not have any difficulty presenting that evidence right here and now...right? Personal experience is only one form of learning. How can you possibly know those "sons of bitches" will works their asses of for that $50 if you hadn't hired those "sons of bitches"? See above. See above (P.S. Your cross examination technique sux. Quit watching "Law and Order" and go sit through some trials at your local court house.) I am not an attorney nor is this a court of law...nor have I even heard of a show called "Law and Order." And if my questioning "sux" so much, why do you continue to avoid even answering the questions? You very specifically said that illegal don't in TN get the services I several times mentioned...yet when I asked you what they do when they get sick, hurt, have school-aged kids, etc. and who pays for it...you ignore the question, delete the question from quoted text, and then have the audacity to attack the questioner. Is this sort of lack of intellectual integrity a prerequisite for part-time prosecutors in your corner of the world...or is it something just specifc to you? The answer is not 10 divisions on the southern border, but a system that recognizes reality and does not pander to the prejudices of those who hate anybody not like themselves. I'm sure that dog-eared race card of yours sits in your shirt pocket for quick use as a red herring tool for you, but you're the only person here talking about hate. I know a thing or two about hate, Again, race and hate have nothing to do with this...despite your constant desperate efforts to slam your warn-our race card on the table. How about answering the questions instead of cowardly hiding behind red herring arguments? --Mike |
#19
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Michael Wise" wrote in message news:no-
How about answering the questions instead of cowardly hiding behind red herring arguments? You're right. I am a complete moral coward and intellectually unfit to joust with the likes of such as your. I quit. You win. Bill Kambic If, by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or unintentionally, displayed any breedist, disciplinist, sexist, racist, culturalist, nationalist, regionalist, localist, ageist, lookist, ableist, sizeist, speciesist, intellectualist, socioeconomicist, ethnocentrist, phallocentrist, heteropatriarchalist, or other violation of the rules of political correctness, known or unknown, I am not sorry and I encourage you to get over it. |
#20
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In article , "Bill Kambic"
wrote: Michael Wise" wrote in message news:no- How about answering the questions instead of cowardly hiding behind red herring arguments? You're right. I am a complete moral coward and intellectually unfit to joust with the likes of such as your. I quit. You win. Is that you're way of telling us you never intend on telling us who pays for the city/county/state services used by illegal aliens? --Mike |
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