AP/Reuters Says Blackhawk Hostile Fire Loss and First Chem Munitions Found

Kevin Brooks wrote:

"tadaa" wrote in message ...
Saddam was supposed to have (a) destroyed all of his chemical munitions,
and
(b) accounted for same. It is obvious that in this case (a) any
destruction
was unintentional (or why would they have wrapped them up before burying
them?), and (b) he did not account for them. That would put him in
violation
of both the ceasefire agreements and the subsequent UN resolutions.

The rounds were found from former swamp bed (Saddam dried these swamps in
effort to catch the Shiia rebels after 1991) and were estimated to be 10+
years old by US specialists.

Uhmm...the last I heard the dating was inconclusive as of yet, with various
sources making differing claims, from "ten years" (which would of course
have been *after* ODS--it could be over *thirteen* years old and still have
been a post-ODS cache), to "the Iran-Iraq War". In the end, it does not
really matter--Saddam turned in repeated and differing accounts detailing
his alleged destruction of WMD...do you think he listed any of it as "Gee,
we lost it and don't know *where* it is"? I doubt it. Face it, he did not
meet the requirements.

Brooks



Since there have been so many "Gulf Wars" and things are getting confusing, do
you think maybe we could call the current war "The Accounting Irregularities
War"?

Bob McKellar

"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

If Saddam can walk away from accounting for 36 buried chem rounds
(assuming
they are chem), why not 360 - at what point would you agree that he should
have accounted for the rounds?

While we may have insisted that he had accountability, the actual disposal
and tracking takes place at a much lower level. If a soldier steals demo
from a range, is our President liable?

Glenn D.

The rounds were found from former swamp bed (Saddam dried these swamps
in
effort to catch the Shiia rebels after 1991) and were estimated to be
10+
years old by US specialists.

Uhmm...the last I heard the dating was inconclusive as of yet, with
various
sources making differing claims, from "ten years" (which would of course
have been *after* ODS--it could be over *thirteen* years old and still
have
been a post-ODS cache), to "the Iran-Iraq War". In the end, it does not
really matter--Saddam turned in repeated and differing accounts detailing
his alleged destruction of WMD...do you think he listed any of it as "Gee,
we lost it and don't know *where* it is"? I doubt it. Face it, he did not
meet the requirements.

I believe he claimed to have destroyed or disposed of those weapons, but not
so surprisingly no one believed him.

"Glenn Dowdy" wrote in message
...

"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

If Saddam can walk away from accounting for 36 buried chem rounds
(assuming
they are chem), why not 360 - at what point would you agree that he
should
have accounted for the rounds?

While we may have insisted that he had accountability, the actual disposal
and tracking takes place at a much lower level. If a soldier steals demo
from a range, is our President liable?

This ain't demo from a range. These munitions were the subject of repeated
requirements for Saddam to fully (and accurately) account for them, which he
obviously failed to do (I'd challenge you to find, anywhere in Saddam's
numerous "full, final, and complete" WMD disclosures to the UN, where he
listed *any* chemical weapons as either stolen or lost). Further, there is
no indication they were "stolen"; in fact, it would appear they were
intentionally hidden, so your analogy is not too accurate IMO.

Brooks


Glenn D.

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
. ..

Further, there is
no indication they were "stolen"; in fact, it would appear they were
intentionally hidden, so your analogy is not too accurate IMO.

I don't know the details of the exact find, but I've seen "buried". In my
experience, Sgt Rock and Pvt Snuffy may well interpret their orders to
destroy or get rid of something by burying it.

Glenn D.

"Glenn Dowdy" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
. ..

Further, there is
no indication they were "stolen"; in fact, it would appear they were
intentionally hidden, so your analogy is not too accurate IMO.

I don't know the details of the exact find, but I've seen "buried". In my
experience, Sgt Rock and Pvt Snuffy may well interpret their orders to
destroy or get rid of something by burying it.

Wrapped up neatly in mylar, huh? Regardless, they were not *accounted for*
by Saddam in his numerous "disclosure" statements. Bad on him.

Brooks


Glenn D.

Kevin Brooks wrote:

"Glenn Dowdy" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
t...

Further, there is

no indication they were "stolen"; in fact, it would appear they were
intentionally hidden, so your analogy is not too accurate IMO.


I don't know the details of the exact find, but I've seen "buried". In my
experience, Sgt Rock and Pvt Snuffy may well interpret their orders to
destroy or get rid of something by burying it.


Wrapped up neatly in mylar, huh? Regardless, they were not *accounted for*
by Saddam in his numerous "disclosure" statements. Bad on him.


Tut tut indeed.

Think it justified going to war?!

John

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
Kevin Brooks wrote:

"Glenn Dowdy" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
t...

Further, there is

no indication they were "stolen"; in fact, it would appear they were
intentionally hidden, so your analogy is not too accurate IMO.


I don't know the details of the exact find, but I've seen "buried". In
my
experience, Sgt Rock and Pvt Snuffy may well interpret their orders to
destroy or get rid of something by burying it.


Wrapped up neatly in mylar, huh? Regardless, they were not *accounted
for*
by Saddam in his numerous "disclosure" statements. Bad on him.


Tut tut indeed.

Think it justified going to war?!

I personally think Saddam himself, with all of his nauseating atrocities
under his belt, was plenty enough justification for going to war--the fact
that he wanted to play games with the WMD requirements was just icing on the
cake. Why, are you losing sleep over his departure from power?

Brooks


John

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message .. .
"Glenn Dowdy" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
. ..

Further, there is
no indication they were "stolen"; in fact, it would appear they were
intentionally hidden, so your analogy is not too accurate IMO.

I don't know the details of the exact find, but I've seen "buried". In my
experience, Sgt Rock and Pvt Snuffy may well interpret their orders to
destroy or get rid of something by burying it.

Wrapped up neatly in mylar, huh? Regardless, they were not *accounted for*
by Saddam in his numerous "disclosure" statements. Bad on him.

Brooks

Well the AP is reporting that the mortar shells, on further
examination, do not contain blister agents or other banned weapons.
False alarm here as the field testing gear is understandably hyper
sensistive and designed to go "PING, PING, PING" at the slightest hint
of something nasty. The specialist equipment in the exploitation
units have detected no sign of blister agents. There is one more
round of testing to be done in CONUS, but it looks like a false alarm.

Link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._mortar_shells

Second point; in the previous posts some people poohawed the idea that
Iraq declared at any point that it lost track of shells. Well they
did, from Daily Kos (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/1/10/212436/884)
and the UN interim report as of March 6,2003
(p.76)http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/docu...rch%200 3.pdf

There were about 550 shells unaccounted for out of the ~13,000 that
were declared as filled with mustard gas by 1991. So yes, there were
chemical weapons shells that just got lost and unaccounted for in the
past.




Glenn D.

"Glenn Dowdy" wrote in message
...

"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

If Saddam can walk away from accounting for 36 buried chem rounds
(assuming
they are chem), why not 360 - at what point would you agree that he
should
have accounted for the rounds?

While we may have insisted that he had accountability, the actual disposal
and tracking takes place at a much lower level. If a soldier steals demo
from a range, is our President liable?

Still avoiding the issue, if they were stolen, Saddam was still responsible
to account for them up until the point they were stolen and then give
credible evidence to support the claim that they were stolen.

You see your President didn't lose a war and sign an agreement to account
for demo in exchange for a cease fire.