Issues around de-ice on a 182

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

In any case, more power to you if you feel that's a fine approach. I have
even had the local Mooney salesman tell me that the TKS system, even if
approved for known ice, should not be used to actually fly into reported
icing conditions. His opinion made sense to me at the time, and it still
makes sense.

Peter,

Here is a reply I received from the Mooney salesman you referred me to in
private email:

In fact, I have flown many hours "ugly" icing conditions with known-ice
Mooneys. I have told many people that only weather I wouldn't fly into (if I
am TKS equipped) is a thunderstorm. I think the Mooney installation of TKS
is great! By contrast, I will say that the Cirrus installation of TKS is
questionable. 2.5 gallons in a non-turbo piston is asking for trouble. The
SR-22 cannot climb through the ice and pilots will be tempted to stay in it.
I also question the Bonanza installation. A client of mine has a 1993 B36TC
with TKS and recently experienced a "top off" with 100LL in his TKS tank. I
have no experience with the C-210 installation.


--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Richard Kaplan wrote:

In fact, I have flown many hours "ugly" icing conditions with known-ice
Mooneys. I have told many people that only weather I wouldn't fly into (if
I am TKS equipped) is a thunderstorm. I think the Mooney installation of
TKS is great! By contrast, I will say that the Cirrus installation of TKS
is questionable. 2.5 gallons in a non-turbo piston is asking for trouble.
The SR-22 cannot climb through the ice and pilots will be tempted to stay
in it.

For someone familiar with neither Mooney nor Cirrus...what's the difference?
Is it the longer duration of the Mooney's [certified] TKS? Is it really
safe to continue in icing just because the TKS is known-ice certified, or
isn't that still asking for trouble?

- Andrew

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
...
Here is a reply I received from the Mooney salesman you referred me to in
private email:

In fact, I have flown many hours "ugly" icing conditions with known-ice
Mooneys. I have told many people that only weather I wouldn't fly into (if
I
am TKS equipped) is a thunderstorm.

Well, obviously people's opinions do change. I know what he said to me, but
I'm not interested in getting into a "he said, he said" argument. If he
believes he didn't say what he said, that's fine with me. I know he
wouldn't lie about something like that, but he is mistaken about his
recollection. In any case, obviously his current thinking is more aligned
with yours.

Pete

For someone familiar with neither Mooney nor Cirrus...what's the difference?

Is it the longer duration of the Mooney's [certified] TKS? Is it really
safe to continue in icing just because the TKS is known-ice certified, or
isn't that still asking for trouble?

- Andrew


Messing around in ice with a light airplane even with tks is asking for
trouble. Sooner or later you'll run out, lose a line or pump, will you have a
way out?

WIACapt wrote:

Messing around in ice with a light airplane even with tks is asking for
trouble. Sooner or later you'll run out, lose a line or pump, will you
have a way out?

That's rather my point. The author of the comment I cited - a Mooney
salesperson, if I've followed the thread accurately - seemed to indicate
that he's no problem with continued flight in

"ugly" icing conditions

in Mooneys certified for known ice (presumably with a TKS, but that wasn't
clear to me). That seems unwise even for a known-ice certified aircraft.

But I've no experience with Mooneys or known-ice certified aircraft, which
is why I'm asking.

- Andrew

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ...


even had the local Mooney salesman tell me that the TKS system, even if
approved for known ice, should not be used to actually fly into reported
icing conditions. His opinion made sense to me at the time, and it still
makes sense.


Here is the reply I received from the Mooney salesman whose contact
info you provided in private email:

I have flown many hours "ugly" icing conditions with known-ice
Mooneys. I have told many people that only weather I wouldn't fly into
(if I am TKS equipped) is a thunderstorm. I think the Mooney
installation of TKS is great! By contrast, I will say that the Cirrus
installation of TKS is questionable. 2.5 gallons in a non-turbo piston
is asking for trouble. The SR-22 cannot climb through the ice and
pilots will be tempted to stay in it. I also question the Bonanza
installation. A client of mine has a 1993 B36TC with TKS and recently
experienced a "top off" with 100LL in his TKS tank. I have no
experience with the C-210 installation.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ...


even had the local Mooney salesman tell me that the TKS system, even if
approved for known ice, should not be used to actually fly into reported
icing conditions. His opinion made sense to me at the time, and it still
makes sense.


Here is the reply I received from the Mooney salesman whose contact
info you provided in private email:

I have flown many hours "ugly" icing conditions with known-ice
Mooneys. I have told many people that only weather I wouldn't fly into
(if I am TKS equipped) is a thunderstorm. I think the Mooney
installation of TKS is great! By contrast, I will say that the Cirrus
installation of TKS is questionable. 2.5 gallons in a non-turbo piston
is asking for trouble. The SR-22 cannot climb through the ice and
pilots will be tempted to stay in it. I also question the Bonanza
installation. A client of mine has a 1993 B36TC with TKS and recently
experienced a "top off" with 100LL in his TKS tank. I have no
experience with the C-210 installation.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ...


even had the local Mooney salesman tell me that the TKS system, even if
approved for known ice, should not be used to actually fly into reported
icing conditions. His opinion made sense to me at the time, and it still
makes sense.


Here is the reply I received from the Mooney salesman whose contact
info you provided in private email:

I have flown many hours "ugly" icing conditions with known-ice
Mooneys. I have told many people that only weather I wouldn't fly into
(if I am TKS equipped) is a thunderstorm. I think the Mooney
installation of TKS is great! By contrast, I will say that the Cirrus
installation of TKS is questionable. 2.5 gallons in a non-turbo piston
is asking for trouble. The SR-22 cannot climb through the ice and
pilots will be tempted to stay in it. I also question the Bonanza
installation. A client of mine has a 1993 B36TC with TKS and recently
experienced a "top off" with 100LL in his TKS tank. I have no
experience with the C-210 installation.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

We should be specific and careful about the wordings and definitions.

Deice - used to remove existing ice.
Anti ice - used to delay the formation of ice.
known ice - a specific term, used by the FAA when certifying an aircraft for
flight into ice.

Certifying for flight in known ice includes providing for pilot visability.
This means heated windshield
or clear vision panel, or other method to see through the windshield.
Certification also requires proving
flight through specific ranges of ice encounters, which in turn means
proving that the system works with
certain droplet size, temp, and other conditions.

Anti ice or deice equipment on an airplane does not necessarily mean that it
is certified for flight into
ice. Certifying installation of anti or deice equipment does not imply
certification for flight into ice.

Dennis Brown

Richard Kaplan wrote in message ...
"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...


even had the local Mooney salesman tell me that the TKS system, even if
approved for known ice, should not be used to actually fly into reported
icing conditions. His opinion made sense to me at the time, and it still
makes sense.


Here is the reply I received from the Mooney salesman whose contact
info you provided in private email:

I have flown many hours "ugly" icing conditions with known-ice
Mooneys. I have told many people that only weather I wouldn't fly into
(if I am TKS equipped) is a thunderstorm. I think the Mooney
installation of TKS is great! By contrast, I will say that the Cirrus
installation of TKS is questionable. 2.5 gallons in a non-turbo piston
is asking for trouble. The SR-22 cannot climb through the ice and
pilots will be tempted to stay in it. I also question the Bonanza
installation. A client of mine has a 1993 B36TC with TKS and recently
experienced a "top off" with 100LL in his TKS tank. I have no
experience with the C-210 installation.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ...


believes he didn't say what he said, that's fine with me. I know he
wouldn't lie about something like that, but he is mistaken about his
recollection. In any case, obviously his current thinking is more aligned
with yours.

Could it be that perhaps what he said is that he would not fly into
reported SEVERE icing with TKS? I would agree with that; I would not
fly into forecast severe icing either.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII