FLARM in Stealth Mode at US 15M/Standard Nationals - Loved It!

In the UK most people fly with traditional Flarm rather than Powerflarm. The range is so much shorter that the issues are different. I have my Butterfly display set to 2 km because anything more is fairly useless.

At 17:56 05 August 2015, 7C wrote:
Other Flarm users. If you are in Stealth you give no more warnings to
othe=
r users than you receive. So non-stealth gliders will not see any more
th=
an your fellow competitors. =20

This has the unfortunate effect of causing gaggles to 'appear' with very
li=
ttle prior warning.

So... a fast moving powered aircraft that happens to have Flarm will have
s=
econds worth of warning that you are about to collide which may not be
suff=
icient. I'd be concerned about the liability issues if this was to
happen
=
because you had degraded your collision avoidance systems - especially in
t=
he US!

This explanation is untrue. Stealth mode does not limit the amount of
information transmitted nor range of the transmission.

Pilots not in stealth mode get exactly the same collision warnings but
their systems will not report to display devices climb rates and vertical
separation accurately beyond 2Km.

Please read section 3.1.7 of the Flarm Configuration Specification document
FTD-14 before you propagate alarmist nonsense.

On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 10:31:51 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:

Personally I find the greater situational awareness of what others are doing makes the contest more enjoyable. The big complaint, especially when we moved from AST to time limited tasks is that nobody knew what anyone else was doing, you went and flew and waited for an 8 pm scoresheet. Well, now you know a lot more about what others are doing.

But that's my view. All I've heard is grumbling about how terrible it is that the sport is changing. That's not a problem. I've heard hypotheticals about new instruments someone might make someday. That's not a problem today. Just what is the real problem we're trying to fix here?

John Cochrane BB

I don't think anyone is claiming that it's "terrible that the sport is changing". GPS recording and the tasks it enables, better instruments, safer gliders, etc. are all huge steps forward. However, these changes do at some point impact the cost of competing, the skills required of pilots, and the characteristics of competition flights.

Once enough competitors decide that better tactical information from Flarm is vitally important, it's the displays of this information which will become the next frontier. Many of the half-hearted attempts at convincing us that Flarm isn't all that important in this thread (climb rates aren't reliable, it's not that important to know where everyone is prior to the start) are not at all convincing. Maybe they're based on current displays (which were built for collision avoidance)? Maybe they're just based on small samples? All I can say is that there is a big difference between a competition in Stealth Mode v.s. one in "Regular" mode. For me, the Stealth Mode contest wins hands-down. It'll be interesting to see what others say when this comes up in the Pilot Opinion Poll.

Parting shot. As a some-time sailor (Lightning Class), I love the fact that many one-design classes have drawn a line in the sand to say "this is where technology stops and human skill and strength prevail". While the march of technology is inevitable, the decision on how to use it should be conscious rather than unconscious.

P3

On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 10:31:51 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:
Just what is the real problem we're trying to fix here?

John Cochrane

Loss of interest in competition soaring would be high on my list.

So far, the guys weighing in from Elmira (the ones who voted with their wallets and vacation time) seem to be of the opinion that stealth mode was a good thing.

The pre-contest buzz I heard about the stealth mode requirement at std/15s was all positive.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 8:45:06 AM UTC-4, Ian Reekie wrote:
Consider a very fast power pilot that has fitted Power Flarm purely to
avoid other aircraft - especially gliders. He is used to seeing other
traffic at 5-10km on his Flarm radar display and always takes early
avoiding action.

Stealth mode changes the transmission of information in only one way: it adds a flag that says "this flarm device is in stealth mode". That's all.

If not already done, flarm could do this: configure the fast power pilot option in power flarm to reject the stealth bit flag and simply report all traffic in view as normal. Maybe this capability comes in a different box that isn't permitted in glider comps.

Aside: I question whether power flarm is the right tool for collision avoidance involving fast power traffic. It's certainly not adequate for jets.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

I believe both of the above statements lack the proper context.

First, the BGA suspended their use of stealth mode for this season due to concerns about commercial and military traffic and ATC facilities that were equipped to see FLARM equipped gliders. They thought the use of stealth mode was worth pursuing and are working with manufacturers to tweak it so it can provide stealth mode to competitors and still paint gliders to outside users. In the US no commercial, military aircraft, or ATC facilities are equipped to see FLARM gliders.

Second, the context of the guidance in the FLARM configuration document is for FLARM users configuring their unit for general flying. For use during competitions, they have designed the option of a stealth mode. They are not saying "Don't use this available feature."

XC

Thanks to Eric, Sean and others for posting their impressions from the Elmira contest. The commentary and discussion should help inform any fall polling.

Seems like there are two questions to be addressed. First, does Flarm, with vs without Stealth mode materially affect the outcomes and fairness of contests - whether it's top of the scoresheet, middle of the scoresheet, bottom of the scoresheet. Second, does Flarm, with or without Stealth, materially affect pilot enjoyment of flying contests - from US team contenders to first-timers?

We now have at least one contest we can compare the results from to see if pilots scored significantly differently with stealth vs not - there is normally a lot of variance in the scoring even over a long contest so it may or may not show anything but at least we will have an indication if anything significant is going on.

As to the arms race - you can get pretty detailed tactical display of Flarm data on an Oudie or a PNA or Phablet running open source software. I admit I am a little at a loss as to how that's going to amount to an expense that takes people out of the sport.

There seems to be general agreement that Flarm aides situational awareness for as far as it can "see". The difference is in what the incremental mile or two of near-prefect "vision" does to actual tactics and contest results - and pilot enjoyment.

9B

I've been lucky to fly several different sites and events with PFlarm, including Mifflin, Nephi Olc '14, PanAm, and most recent Harris Hill in stealth.. I'd like to underscore the glitches we had getting stealth mode to stick at elmira; one noble contestant landed and relit when he saw his unit had reverted to non-stealth. And enforcement is tricky.

The other point I'd make is that we were blessed at elmira with superb visibility, few narrow converging legs at turnpoints, and a relatively small number of gliders. I nearly always had the other glider visually before the flarm alert. I'm heartened to hear UH say the head-on alerts were unaffected on the ridge; for me, this is the biggest gain with pf, especially at uvalde, Hobbs, and Minden, where the speeds are high and visibility can get hard in the flat afternoon light.

Tactically, I missed the big-picture awareness I've come to use in non-stealth, which hints at an unhealthy dependence and heads-down habit. When life is good, you can see yourself pulling away from the pack or gauge progress on a parallel tack; when the doo hits the fan, having a group of targets to aim at is a nice option. My core feeds an Oudie, so I don't have the same level of tactical info others have realized with FlarmView, etc. Climb rates are fiction and I ignore them. But IDs work when folks have registered or shared on the ground (my PanAm teammate). This makes getting hooked up pre-start vastly easier. But it also led to some obvious follow-the-leader at PanAm and Minden. Some people enjoy racing that way. I'd vote for hiding IDs except for sanctioned team flying.

I'd second P3--we can control how our sport changes. Just because we can't stop someone from breaking a rule is a poor reason for abandoning the rule.

Thanks to XC and co. for putting on a fabulous contest and giving us the chance to gain some experience with stealth.

Cost is a non-issue.

First let me apologize for going even more off-topic with this rant. Thank you. Now on with the rant:

I don't begrudge anyone having the bucks (or willing to take on the debt) to own the nice stuff. In fact, I admire and envy you guys who have the latest and greatest. Good on you! I would just ask that you please realize that cost IS an issue. With all due respect, cost is very much an issue for some of us. I fly a $10k, 50 year-old glider with a damned odd trailer, not because I like being cheap, but because that is what I can afford. I just love guys with more money in their instrument panel than I have in my whole racing rig (including the tow vehicle) telling me that "cost is not an issue".. Especially when the costly gadgets being pushed are buggy, temperamental, and tend to keep eyes IN the cockpit.

Oh, and yes, I have flown with a PowerFlarm at a Nationals. Seemed to work OK but I'm sorry to report that I did not have the "IT SAVED MY LIFE" experience. Maybe I just did not spend enough time looking at the Flarm display.



WB
H301 Libelle #19

Could someone please clarify - if a PowerFlarm is in Stealth mode, does that affect in any way the display of PCAS and ADS-B information? If it does, then to my mind there's no sense in using Stealth mode at all, ever.

Assuming Stealth only affects Flarm signal display, I think we need to consider why people would want Stealth used in contests. I think there are three basic types of pilots at contests - those that are hyper competitive, those that are trying to learn competition flying, and those that are just out for fun. It's clear that hyper competitive pilots will probably always want Stealth, so they don't give up any advantage. Those that are trying to learn competition flying will most likely not want Stealth used, so they get a better idea of what's going on around them in real time so as to learn/improve faster. Those out for fun would probably also not want Stealth, but most likely only for situational awareness.

It's the learning pilots that I think are causing the angst in this thread. Perhaps a good compromise would be to allow Stealth only in Regional contests, or perhaps only in Sports class?

-John, Q3