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#11
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Just curious: Water landing question
"Mike Flying 8" wrote Now I just wonder why the floats would stick?!?! I am going to have to find something that I can read about this. If you are able to get half of the water to actually be air, be it waves or bubbles, that would mean you reduced the wetted surface contact by half, and the drag by half. As much drag as water has, that would make a tremendous difference. Getting on the step, well, the step is the part of the float or hull where the float takes about a 8" jump, upwards, so the back part of the float is not as tall. (assume the top of the float is flat) The step, (because it looks like an upside-down step) is usually slightly behind the CG. When you get going fast enough, you are on the step when the whole back (all aft of the step) is out of the water. You now are about half out of the water, and have a lot less drag, so you quickly accelerate to flying speed. When you are going fast enough, you put a small amount of back pressure on the stick, and get some more positive attack, and you pivot about the step and the wing lifts you up and out of the water. At that point, you can make a leisurely climb out, or if you have trees or something to clear, you ease off and let the plane accelerate in ground effect, the zoom up and over the trees on the bank. So, getting on the step is the key to getting the plane quickly hauling ass! -- Jim in NC |
#12
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Just curious: Water landing question
It is easier to get off of water with some chop to it because it
aerates the water. Air has less friction than water so the more turbulence the hull can get beneath it the easier it is to break away from the surface. Getting "on the step" refers to reaching a speed whereas the hull is planing at its "step" on the water like a speedboat. If you look at the bottom of a float or seaplane there is a break or upward "step" usually located aft and at a specific angle to the CG. The purpose of the step is to enable the plane to rotate about a point (of planing) while at speed on the water. If the step wasn't there the plane would drag its afterbody when rotating for take-off The distance it takes to get off of the water is largely dependent on the aircraft, a very rough, general, off the cuff number under good conditions at sea level would be a similar distance as that of a similar land plane plus 30%-50%. However Seaplanes are much more sensitive to increases in weight, and density altitude plays a large hand in getting off of the water. Many small seaplanes/floatplanes will start having trouble getting off of the water at gross weight past a density altitude of 6000'. D |
#13
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Just curious: Water landing question
That would be water's viscosity.
Every try picking up a glass from a wet, smooth counter? -- ------------------------------- Travis Lake N3094P PWK wrote in message ... On Jan 29, 5:35 pm, Mike Flying 8 wrote: Now I just wonder why the floats would stick?!?! I am going to have to find something that I can read about this. Something to do with the lowered pressure caused by the water's velocity, just like Bernoulli says. Once you break free of the water, the airplane accelerates quickly. Sort of like leaving a bunch of draggy weight behind. Molt Taylor, in his amphibious Coot, had air inlets just ahead of the sterp, and air was ducted through tubes to vents in the backside of the step itself to aerate the water a little. It got on the step faster. If the water is a little choppy, getting off is faster because of the same sort of thing: a bit of turbulence against the hull reduces the water's hold on the airplane. Dan |
#14
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Just curious: Water landing question
On Jan 29, 3:34*pm, William Hung wrote:
On Jan 29, 5:27*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote: On Jan 29, 12:04*pm, Mike Flying 8 wrote: Out of my pure ignorance, what does glassy water have to do with TO/Landing distance? *I have been searching on the internet trying to find something educational, but not having much luck. * I would think the Landing would be longer because the lack of *ripples would result in less resistance in the water, but I would think the TO would be shorter for the same reason. *What am I missing? I'm just a pilot and not a hyrodynamic engineer so I'll try my best. The reason landing is longer is because you have no idea how high above the water you are. So you try to cross over the shore around 5-10 feet and then just set up a slow decent until you feel the slash. That tends to take up more space since you're waitng for the water. The take off is longer because the floats stick to the water. I'm not sure how to better explain it but you can certainly feel it. When the water is choppy the floats come right off the water but when its smooth you can actually feel the water pulling on the floats as they try to pull away. Once the floats break free of the smooth water its feels like you just got released and you feel a noticable speed increase in ground affect. -robert Is this what they mean by "getting on the steps"? No. Getting on the step means the floats are not so deep in the water. They are riding higher in the water so there is less drag. I believe the extra take off distance required of a glassy water take off might be because of surface tension. You don't have that in waves. In any case, I just fly them, I can't claim a detailed knowledge of why the water reacts that way. -robert |
#15
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Just curious: Water landing question
On Jan 28, 4:35*pm, es330td wrote:
What kind of space does it take to land/takeoff in a plane with floats? *I realize there are all sorts of rules about where one can do this but I have a relative with a ranch that has a fairly decent sized body of water on it. *This is Texas, so its pretty flat with neglible trees and I wondered if a plane could be put down there. *I tried looking around a little online but couldn't find anything that spelled it out. Try searching for the Sea Plane Pilot Association for more info. Years back when I did a lot of float plane flying in Louisiana and Minnesota, a common technique was to motor around in a circle to chop up the water just before takeoff if we were in a confined area. I flew both floats and amphibs and my last seaplane flying was in a Cessna 206 on amphib floats here in Alabama last year. Did a lot of demo flights for a Lake Amphib dealer in the mid 60's on private lakes in Louisiana. Got my sea plane rating flying with Marion Cole in Monroe, LA. |
#16
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Just curious: Water landing question
On Jan 30, 1:35*pm, Mike Flying 8 wrote:
* Now I just wonder why the floats would stick?!?! *I am going to have to find something that I can read about this. Same as Coanda effect I think. Cheers * |
#17
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Just curious: Water landing question
Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
a common technique was to motor around in a circle to chop up the water just before takeoff if we were in a confined area. That's probably the safest way. Another is to roll the plane into the wind (if there is a cross wind) onto one float during take off. Or roll back and forth to break water tension. Works but requires a bit more finesse. |
#18
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Just curious: Water landing question
On Jan 29, 5:35*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
When you are going fast enough, you put a small amount of back pressure on the stick, and get some more positive attack, and you pivot about the step and the wing lifts you up and out of the water. And knowing that exact amount of back pressure is what makes a seasoned sea plane pilot. Too much back pressure and you'll just muddle in the water, too little and you'll start to bobble. -Robert |
#19
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Just curious: Water landing question
"Robert M. Gary" wrote And knowing that exact amount of back pressure is what makes a seasoned sea plane pilot. Too much back pressure and you'll just muddle in the water, too little and you'll start to bobble. "Bobble?" That must be one of those new "highly technical" terms I'm not familiar with. g -- Jim in NC |
#20
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Just curious: Water landing question
"Morgans" wrote in news:6t3oj.34$Xi2.7
@newsfe02.lga: "Bobble?" That must be one of those new "highly technical" terms I'm not familiar with. g bobble [n]: 1: a repeated bobbing movement bobble [v]: frequentative of bob bob [vi]: 1 a: to move up and down briefly or repeatedly b: to emerge, arise, or appear suddenly or unexpectedly |
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