Wright bros. - True distance

While pondering the fact that 57 seconds is a long time to go 850 ft (best
and third flight on Dec 17th) it occured to me that it was very windy at the
time.
I believe the bros. reported in the telegram home to dad that it was 21 mph.

850 ft in 57 seconds is 894 ft per minute or about 10 mph. Add that to the
21 and you get an average airspeed of 31 mph.

31 mph for 57 seconds means they actually travelled through the air for just
about half a mile!

I wish I'd though of that before.

Using this rough logic, even the very first hop was equivalent to more than
350 ft.

Actually, the statistics of the 5th flight (they actually got off the ground
for about 10 ft. on Dec. 14, but decided not to count that) we re garbled by
the telegraph office. The recorded stats are 852 feet in 59 seconds. And the
wind was probably closer to 27 mph than 21. Ground speed was only 6.8 mph.
But you are right, distance teaveled through the air was greater.

Harry Frey
Wright Brothers Enterprises
http://hometown.aol.com/wright1902gl...right1902.html

From what I understand, they were flying on a down slope with the wind
coming strait on. In radio control modeling you call that slope
soaring. The power to sustain flight is put into the system by the
moving mass of air (wind) against the force of gravity (up hill). In
my misguided past I've flown gliders for hours on end over slopes,
without ANY power at all. People (including the Wright Brothers) had
flown gliders before.

The steeper the slope you use for a given wind speed, the more assist
you have given the engine. It would seem that the first flight off
LEVEL ground would really be the meaningful one. I'm not sure when
THAT was. There had been unsucessful attempts earlier due to lack of
wind. A truly self powered airplane wouldn't care what the wind was,
provided enough takeoff roll.

p.s. I've "sloped" power models, power off, and seen people fly models
made out of toilet paper tubes and cardboard. With enough wind on a
steep enough slope, you can fly just about anything with wings.





"Steve Beaver" wrote in message ...
While pondering the fact that 57 seconds is a long time to go 850 ft (best
and third flight on Dec 17th) it occured to me that it was very windy at the
time.
I believe the bros. reported in the telegram home to dad that it was 21 mph.

850 ft in 57 seconds is 894 ft per minute or about 10 mph. Add that to the
21 and you get an average airspeed of 31 mph.

31 mph for 57 seconds means they actually travelled through the air for just
about half a mile!

I wish I'd though of that before.

Using this rough logic, even the very first hop was equivalent to more than
350 ft.

"Jay" wrote in message om...
From what I understand, they were flying on a down slope with the wind
coming strait on.

I believe that was only the case for Wilbur's first flight (which wasn't
overly successful). The December 17th flights were on level ground.

"Wright1902Glider" wrote in message
...
Actually, the statistics of the 5th flight (they actually got off the
ground
for about 10 ft. on Dec. 14, but decided not to count that) we re garbled
by
the telegraph office. The recorded stats are 852 feet in 59 seconds. And
the
wind was probably closer to 27 mph than 21. Ground speed was only 6.8
mph.
But you are right, distance teaveled through the air was greater.

And if you compute time vs. orbital mechanics, they traveled *miles* through
the space/time continuum. These were the last commercial flights to arrive
on time, however.
;o)
Rich S.

And if you compute time vs. orbital mechanics, they traveled *miles* through
the space/time continuum. These were the last commercial flights to arrive
on time, however.
;o)
Rich S.


well....

that depends whether they were flying "up ether" or "down ether"......heck they
might even have flown a nice negative distance in the ether....setting the
trend for backwards progress in general aviation ever since....

take care

Blll

That is true. On December 14, the wind was about 5-10 mph (variable.) The
machine was run down a slight slope, however it probably crashed because Wilbur
over-pitched the machine and stalled it. Considering the moment of the
doubble-canard elevator, that was extremely easy to do in the 1903. Also,
having tried out the "cockpit" of John Reynolds' 1903 replica, I can say that
forward visibility is almost completely obscured when the elevator is pitched
up.

All of the flights on Dec. 17 were made from dead-flat level ground. I've been
to Kitty Hawk and researched it myself... its flatter than a pancake. And
every attempt to fly the 1903 was made directly into the wind.

Now, I'd like to bring up three more points. First point: consider the way a
modern airplane takes off, versus the 1903 Flyer. A modern airplane uses a
long runway to achieve sufficient airspeed above stall before rotating and
lifting off. The Wrights did not have that option. They only had a 40 ft.
launch rail. They used existing wind as a way to build enough airspeed to
rotate while keeping ground speed to an absolute minimum. That was a good idea
considering the plane's fragile construction. However, all four flights were
made using engine power alone as a power source. There was no ridge-lift or
other orrigraphic component. There was no thermal lift. And, the plane moved
forward, landing at a point as high as it started from, so there was no gliding
/ gravity component. Therefore, the plane was flying in the true sense, not
soaring downward through rising air.

Second point: in 1904, the Wrights tried again with a machine almost identical
to the 1903. With winds less than 10 mph, they made flights in excess 1300
feet. Their attempts at using a very long launch rail were largely
unsuccessful. However, the long flights of 1904 were made by launching off a
40 ft. rail using a catapult to help build initial airspeed. Once the plane
was above stall speed and lifted off, it was all engine.

Third point: the Wright 1903 flier was not the first powered aircraft to lift
off the ground using engine power alone. That honor goes to Sir Hiriam Maxim's
1896 aircraft. Maxim's plane wieghed almost 8,000 lbs (yeah, eight Thousand
pounds!) and was powered by twin 180 HP steam engines. However, it lacked the
critical element that would make it successful. The one thing that the Wrights
alone had developed... a fully-functional, three-axis flight control system.
And they had it by Oct. 8, 1902.

Now if anyone thinks that they could do better than the Wrights did in 1903,
considering the existing level of materials, technology, and aerodynamic
knowledge, I'd like to see them try. In the last 100 years, only 4
historically acurate 1903 replicas have managed to fly. The Wright 1903 Flyer
may be the most marginal airplane ever successfully flown. But, it is an
airplane, and it did fly, and that makes all the difference.

Harry "hip-cradle bruises" Frey

Third point: the Wright 1903 flier was not the first powered aircraft to lift
off the ground using engine power alone. That honor goes to Sir Hiriam Maxim's
1896 aircraft. Maxim's plane wieghed almost 8,000 lbs (yeah, eight Thousand
pounds!) and was powered by twin 180 HP steam engines. However, it lacked the
critical element that would make it successful. The one thing that the Wrights
alone had developed... a fully-functional, three-axis flight control system.
And they had it by Oct. 8, 1902.

Some fun reading about that at http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/maxim.html

Ed Wischmeyer

Thanks for the reference Ed. I've not seen that one before.

Harry