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Soaring not compatible with modern society?



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 5th 18, 03:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

I'm wondering how much the modern reluctance to land out and desire for collision avoidance technology is driven by an underlying fear that if society knew about soaring, society would ban it. Granted no one wants to die or have anyone else die but we've been recreational flying for 100 years and accepting the same or worse odds the whole time. Taking risks that were normal not that long ago is frowned upon by society. More than frowned upon, prosecuted. Is soaring culturally illegal just not yet legislatively? Do we try to keep it hidden, play the 'preserve' freedom by not exercising it game? Spewing safety blather won't stop them from stopping us. Nor will better safety gear, the people driving modern society don't care about safety. Safety is just a cover for control and ruining other people's fun. Should we just run the game out then go sailing(if we are still allowed) or should we start standing up for our flying history and culture?
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  #2  
Old May 5th 18, 03:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Matt Herron Jr.
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Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 8:16:37 PM UTC-6, wrote:
I'm wondering how much the modern reluctance to land out and desire for collision avoidance technology is driven by an underlying fear that if society knew about soaring, society would ban it. Granted no one wants to die or have anyone else die but we've been recreational flying for 100 years and accepting the same or worse odds the whole time. Taking risks that were normal not that long ago is frowned upon by society. More than frowned upon, prosecuted. Is soaring culturally illegal just not yet legislatively? Do we try to keep it hidden, play the 'preserve' freedom by not exercising it game? Spewing safety blather won't stop them from stopping us. Nor will better safety gear, the people driving modern society don't care about safety. Safety is just a cover for control and ruining other people's fun. Should we just run the game out then go sailing(if we are still allowed) or should we start standing up for our flying history and culture?


Improvement is safety is a natural evolution of every dangerous sport, activity or pastime. I don't thing we are hiding the risks of soaring from society. No one is listening to our "safety blather", but the first mid-air between a glider and a commercial jet will definitely curtail our sport. Improving safety is important for the preservation of the sport relative to the outside world view,, and for the seven or so lives lost each year within our own ranks.
  #3  
Old May 5th 18, 06:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Foster
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Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 8:16:37 PM UTC-6, wrote:
I'm wondering how much the modern reluctance to land out and desire for collision avoidance technology is driven by an underlying fear that if society knew about soaring, society would ban it. Granted no one wants to die or have anyone else die but we've been recreational flying for 100 years and accepting the same or worse odds the whole time. Taking risks that were normal not that long ago is frowned upon by society. More than frowned upon, prosecuted. Is soaring culturally illegal just not yet legislatively? Do we try to keep it hidden, play the 'preserve' freedom by not exercising it game? Spewing safety blather won't stop them from stopping us. Nor will better safety gear, the people driving modern society don't care about safety. Safety is just a cover for control and ruining other people's fun. Should we just run the game out then go sailing(if we are still allowed) or should we start standing up for our flying history and culture?


The problem with modern society is a lack of, or aversion to personal responsibility. It's alway "someone else's fault". In soaring, you have to accept the consequences of the choices you make. It is forced upon you. However you try and "tech it up", you still ultimately have to take responsibility for when you fly, where you fly, and how you fly. Those are all your decisions as a pilot, and you bear the consequences, both good and bad, for those choices. Too many people these days prefer to sit back on the couch and watch a screen of some sort where they don't have to deal with those consequences. So much of life these days is so protected in a shell, in an effort to shield against having to take responsibility for anything.
  #4  
Old May 5th 18, 10:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Walsh
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Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

Well I think there is a simpler explanation. In the past
sailplanes were cheap and did not have "little engines", if you
flew cross country you sometimes ended up in a field.
Now it's very different: firstly sailplanes are vastly more
expensive and secondly many have those "little engines",
thirdly todays sailplanes are much heavier and land much
faster. Landing a Grunau Baby is not the same experience as
landing a Nimbus 4.
Landing into an unknown farmers field is idiotic, why would
you willingly strap multi thousands of $'s of carbon fibre to
your backside and choose to land in a field?
The accident statistics clearly show how many field landing
accidents result in damage. I don't think it's anything to do
with personal risk; lots of people still rock climb, mountaineer,
sail, ski, sky-dive etc. They don't set off on each trip with the
expectation of a vast bill from their local repair shop!
Dave Walsh

  #5  
Old May 5th 18, 01:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom[_21_]
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Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

This quote - it will go on my "best of RAS": "Safety is just a cover for control and ruining other people's fun." I'll keep it in mind as we conduct our pre-season safety meeting, as our main purpose is to not have someone die or be injured and not to break a lot of expensive, hard to replace equipment. I'll keep that in mind as we try to keep the our young line crew, our tow pilots, our instructors, our pilots and our passengers safe and have a successful season.

There are so many other things I could say here but I think I will treat this as one of the posts that there truly is no reasonable response to. My friends would tell me to not rise to this obvious bait but obviously this poster has cast that fly so perfectly into my pool that it got me.

Regards, Tom
  #6  
Old May 5th 18, 01:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
richard wilkening
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Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

There are SO many activities competing for one’s attention (and dollars) that it dilutes the pool of possible participants. Coupled with an expectation of immediate gratification (vs. waiting at the gliderport for CUs to pop) and a more solitary existence (staring at a mobile device while in a crowd) and you may be right.
  #7  
Old May 5th 18, 02:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 10:16:37 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I'm wondering how much the modern reluctance to land out and desire for collision avoidance technology is driven by an underlying fear that if society knew about soaring, society would ban it.


None at all that I can see.

Smart people simply want not to collide with other **** in dense traffic environments. You've been getting grief because you have been making fun of others' interest in behaving responsibly.

Landing out... well, landing out is just a lot of work. My last landout went just about as well as it is possible to go, but it still took nearly seven hours to get home. Last year I had one that was ten.

Evan / T8
  #8  
Old May 5th 18, 03:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 10:27:29 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
.... the first mid-air between a glider and a commercial jet will definitely curtail our sport.

Anyone who does not want to be the glider pilot that causes that disaster would install a transponder now.
  #9  
Old May 5th 18, 04:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Soartech
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Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

Dave, Why do you speak of the "little engines" in a negative way? They are part of the way you can greatly reduce your risk of landing out. Yes, landing your expensive composite glider in a farmers field is "idiotic". I agree! I was a hang glider pilot for 35 years before taking up sailplanes. Many of us were. Every HG XC flight has a landout at the end, usually in some field. But HG are way less expensive, fold up easily and weigh ~75 lbs. So landouts are not much of a problem. Sort of like the Grunu Baby you mention, I imagine, without a trailer.
The big problem with entry into our sport is the huge amount of money required. Face it, this is a rich man's sport! Any young person with a desire to soar to the clouds these days can do so for just a few thousand dollars with a paraglider or hang glider. No license, no trailer, no crew required. For them, the choice has already been made by their financial situation. Sailplanes are in their distant future (maybe).

On Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 5:15:07 AM UTC-4, Dave Walsh wrote:
Well I think there is a simpler explanation. In the past
sailplanes were cheap and did not have "little engines", if you
flew cross country you sometimes ended up in a field.
Now it's very different: firstly sailplanes are vastly more
expensive and secondly many have those "little engines",
thirdly todays sailplanes are much heavier and land much
faster. Landing a Grunau Baby is not the same experience as
landing a Nimbus 4.
Landing into an unknown farmers field is idiotic, why would
you willingly strap multi thousands of $'s of carbon fibre to
your backside and choose to land in a field?
The accident statistics clearly show how many field landing
accidents result in damage. I don't think it's anything to do
with personal risk; lots of people still rock climb, mountaineer,
sail, ski, sky-dive etc. They don't set off on each trip with the
expectation of a vast bill from their local repair shop!
Dave Walsh


  #10  
Old May 5th 18, 04:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 3,073
Default Soaring not compatible with modern society?

On Monday, 25 Sep, 1978, a B-727 crashed in San Diego following a
collision with a Cessna 172.* To my knowledge 172s are still flying.

On 5/4/2018 8:27 PM, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:

snips
No one is listening to our "safety blather", but the first mid-air
between a glider and a commercial jet will definitely curtail our sport.


--
Dan, 5J
 




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