Leaving the community

Actually, come to think of it, where Kerry really went wrong was by taking
all of the spotlight away from Edwards after the "pat on the ass" incident.
Had he plastered Edwards' face on the front of the ticket prominently next
to his, he would have gotten more of the women and gay men to come out and
vote for him - enough to win several of those borderline states!


Judah wrote in
:

I'm not sure I agree... I think Gephardt lost out because of nothing
short of a lack of charisma. I don't think people were paying that much
attention to positions or character during the primaries, and there
were way too many people on the list to go very deep. But if he wasn't
charismatic enough to beat Kerry on the Primaries, I'm not sure he
would have had what it took to beat Bush either. After all, Gore lost
on charisma too.

I think where Kerry blew it worst is that he never really recovered
from the whole "flip-flop" persona. He had opportunities to. But
basically, his only comeback was to say that he misspoke when he talked
about "voting for it before voting against it." From a public
perception, he was saying that he made a mistake by poorly describing
his flip-flopping, but never actually addressed the issue of
flip-flopping itself.

He didn't focus (as I think he should have) on the reality that
sometimes it is better to change your opinion in light of new facts
than to hold firm to a lie. He could have very easily turned the whole
thing around and put Bush in a defensive position - either the
President of the United States had the wool pulled over his eyes by his
own intelligence agency and is incompetent, or he had hidden motives
and went into Iraq based on a lie and pulled the wool over the eyes of
the American people and is undeserving. Instead, he left his own
trustworthiness unaddressed, and the public just didn't trust him. It
didn't help, either, that he constantly spoke about how he had a
"better plan" for Iraq, but never really qualified that with what the
plan was... Basically it left his credibility completely in question.

Either way, I think this is a much more serious issue than stem cell
research, or Gay Marraige. I strongly suspect that what the news media
is labelling "Moral Values" is not about the latter issues nearly as
much as about just general credibility. I guess liberals like me prefer
to give Kerry a chance, rather than let Bush go on pulling the wool
over our eyes (or allowing it to be pulled over our eyes by his staff).
Where conservatives would rather have someone they are comfortable with
in office than give the new, unpredictable guy a chance, especially if
he has shown he might not be perfect either.


No, I think the biggest problem in this election was simply that there
was not much difference at all between the two candidates, or if there
was, it was so clouded by nonessential issues that the general public
was left to vote on whether they are more comfortable with or without
change, and not much else.


"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:k_bid.351511$MQ5.252777@attbi_s52:

These people are mad Kerry didn't run a liberal campaign and can't
stand that he "was just as pro-war as Bush."

That is SO ironic.

If the Democrats has nominated a middle-of-the-road guy to run against
Bush -- say, Dick Gephardt -- this election would not have even been
close. The Democrats would have swept the nation, and never by less
than 25 percentage points.

Stupidly, they nominated a guy whose political positions were to the
left of Ted Kennedy's, absolutely ensuring a Bush victory.

There were many traditional Republicans out here -- myself included --
who would have voted for a conservative Democrat in this election.
But there was just no way for any of us to vote for a guy like Kerry.

The moral for the Democrats: Don't ever nominate an ultra liberal to
run for president again.

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
m...
I have the right to own and fire my Mauser, and, as far as I'm concerned,
that
includes the right to be allowed to buy ammunition for it. Kerry tried to
ban that,

I almost forgot,,,,what for goodness sake do you need to be firing
ammunition as large as the type that the Mauser uses? Are the deer BIGGER
where you live,,, home protection, if that's what you are thinking, favors
a shotgun (that's per some cop friends, who would know).

But PLEASE tell me that you aren't one of those crazies that thinks that
if the "government takes over" its' citizens, you are going to be there
like Rambo to prevent it - if that's it,,, don't want to have to tell ya
bub, but you'll be easily outgunned and outmanned and be planted in the
ground in your tracks, faster than you can blink.

Then there are the Freudian possibilities regarding the subconscious need
to have BIG cartridges grin


Please, the 2nd ammendment says I have the right to firearms, not just the
ones that some folks say are ok.



--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Trent Moorehead wrote:
.... I used to think that Democrats were the type of people
who were accepting of others, but I have seen over the last few years
that
they are not. I am a Democrat, but I voted for Bush. He's not perfect,
but
at least he's not a hypocrite.

The liberal democrats I have direct experience with always boast that they
are so tolerant and so pro-choice. This only applies to choice in
abortions
however, and they do NOT approve of choice when it comes to the following:

1) choice in whether or not someone desirec to own firearms (they are
against that)
2) choice in education... they are against anything other than mandatory
public schools
3) choice in placing your FICA taxes into anything other than the social
[in]security
4) choice in health care... they ultimately want the government in charge
of all health care options.

I could mention more but what stir up the natives.



Great response!

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
...
Awww David, hang around! Lots of good stuff to be learned here. I've
lived on the earth long enough to recognize that living amongst
Cro-Magnons can be amusing. Yeah, they unfortunately have the right to
vote,,,, but they make a few grunts and run in the wall a few times and
next thing we know, they are running back to 'us' for advice and help.

I, too, am worried about the direction the country will take. For
instance, I never thought I'd see the day that something like the "Patriot
Act" would be put into place. Whenever we strip away the very core
constitutional rights of our people, we do a great harm to our nation and
allow the terrorists to exact an even more telling blow on our country.
Fortunately, there are enough men and women of reason who have actively
gone after things like the Patriot Act, aiding in disabling its' most
sinister provisions. It will be men and women of reason and good
conscience that will bring things around, again. I DO believe Kerry was
one of those people, but thankfully there are many like him - congressmen
and women that won't allow those precious and hard-fought-for documents to
be attacked at their very heart; The Constitution of The United States and
The Bill of Rights - never EVER letting us forget that our Constitution
begins with those words; "WE, the people......"

Like the second ammendment?


Though I can't say I believe in a divine being or UFO's (so, in my
opinion, we can't depend on extraterrestrials to help us, either) grin,
I can say that I have always believed that in times of dire circumstance
that people of good conscience will always overcome, persevere and
succeed - even when things look to be their darkest. This country will
have it's time to shine, again! :0) I believe that with all my heart!
You should too!!!

Stay with us! :O)

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

Couldn't have said it better myself, Cecil.

Thanks for taking the time. Too bad it's all wasted, though.

mike regish

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
m...


Guns
He's a hunter, I'm pretty sure they use guns for that (he's not a
bowhunter). Just because one doesn't support ownership of AK-47's and
public access to armor-piercing bullets doesn't make one an enemy to gun
ownership. In fact, his record as a senator reveals that he has
consistently supported appropriate gun ownership. I own two shotguns and
a couple of rifles - don't hunt, but skeet and target shoot. Even still,
I just don't think the average citizen needs armor-piercing bullets or
AK-47's (unless you live in remote parts of Alaska grin)/.

?, gay marriage

He stated he was against 'gay marriage' - but in favor of civil unions
that allowed long-time gay couples the right to visit their partner in the
hospital, claims to benefits, etc. This is something that I would think
any reasonable person would think a long-time couple would be entitled to
(regardless of the sexual orientation. You know the funny thing about this
kind of bigotry is that it reminds me of what we would hear in the 60's
"Can't let 'coloreds' have any rights and god-forbid they should be
allowed to marry white-folk". Jeesh,,, doesn't anyone EVER learn from the
lessons of the past.

When are we going to remember the line about 'separation of church and
state'. The gay population has become the new 'coloreds' - get over your
bigotry. Live and let live. A gay couple in a civil union or
marriage,,,, whatever,,,, is no threat to my marriage. In the end it is
just about two consenting adults that care about one another and
recognizing that they have pledged to spend the rest of their lives
together - that sounds pretty cool to me. Of course the ignorant
'religious right' will refer to the Bible, citing that quote regarding the
men of Sodom. I will ask these same people if they have ever done
anything wrong with their hand, or sinned by looking at something and
point out if they haven't cut off that hand or plucked out that eye they
have already violated more than a few of the directives in the Bible. and
GASP what if your women don't keep their heads covered (as mentioned in
both the Old testament AND in the NEW Testament in some of the books of
the New Testament written by Paul). Don't even get me started on the
absurd Adam and Eve story which (if you are ignorant enough to buy into
the account) makes it necessary for all their progeny to commit incest in
order to procreate - of course that would partly explain why some people
seem to have a 'birth defect' in their unreasoned thinking. grin

Regarding the 'gay marriage' issue,,, we need to develop policy based on
fairness and reason, not on some quaint historical book with a cross on
it. Jeesh,,, we might as well just worship rocks and pray to salamanders
for all the similar good it would do. Visit a children's hospital (I have
and it will break your heart),,, the children live and die the same
whether they pray to a 'god' or speak to hamsters... and personally, if
there were a divine being, I can't possibly think of a prayer more worthy
of being granted than the prayer of some dear 4 year old in a cancer ward,
just asking to see their next birthday, hardly ever seems to be 'granted'
though. Of course the 'beauty' of any superstition is that you can go on
to make excuses why it doesn't seem to work all the time, but it is still
superstition; borne from stories of magic, evil and good spirits.
Superstition is great to study, but makes a poor ruler to measure
political policy by and make legislative policy. Let's get out of the
dark ages.

, taxes

Good point,,, you're right Kerry was clearly against tax breaks for the
wealthy, the group that Bush was caught referring to during a private
dinner that was videotaped and to whom he referred to as "My own
eople" ---- Got that right, W. Thank goodness there was someone looking
out for the common man (and still is,,,, as a Senator) as John Kerry.

, the UN.

YIKES! Please tell me that you have most of your teeth and that you don't
play 'Dueling Banjos' along some remote bayou? The United Nations is
LEFTIST? Do you even know the history and original purpose of the United
Nations? Read a book! What was wrong with having a consensus (and some
help) before blundering into Vietnam... OOPS I mean Iraq? Were we under
attack,,,, NO,,,,, I seem to recall Afghanistan had posed that threat but
we never finished trying to get HIM.

You may not agree but they are.

Well, YOU would know.... After all we 'know' that God is on our
side......... ooops... that's the same thinking of Bin Laden uses

jeesh

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

Cecil,

Repeat after me. Never, never, never argue second amendment rights in a
newsgroup. If you need frustration try teaching your dog not to chase
rabbits. In fact, you have a better chance of succeeding there than you do
in converting NRA members.

Michael
(A confirmed gun control advocate...)



"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
m...
He's opposed to private ownership of any firearm except shotguns plugged
to three
shells. And just where in the Constitution exactly is hunting mentioned?
He prattles
about "military-style assault weapons" while trying to ban
semi-automatics, knowing
full well that no military-style assault weapon is semi-automatic.

Have you actually read his voting record and what types of weapons each
respective legislation was referring to? Evidently, not!

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

"Laura Clayton" wrote in message
...
Apparently you can fool 50% of the people, but there is always a noise
function.

I've often wondered why some people feel the need to insult the
intelligence of their fellow voters who simply do not agree with
their world views.

Actually, according to the Gallup Poll, among Republicans you can fool over
60% of the people.

I can't speak for where Bob's coming from, but the truth remains that for
the most part, people who voted for Bush don't actually have their facts
straight. This is not disputable.

Pete

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message


Why are all of the conservatives states in places that are cold in the
winter?

They're not.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

To be fair, the only reason that there was a surplus is because the
country got caught up in a technology stock mania. The market was
generating trillions of short term gains and taxes on those gains is what
swelled federal and state coffers. Bush entered the white house with
millions of taxpayers carrying forward losses.

Now, hush, Mike.

Don't confuse Cecil with facts like these -- it'll get in the way of his
built-up, hard-earned dander...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

These people are mad Kerry didn't run a liberal campaign and can't stand
that he "was just as pro-war as Bush."


That is SO ironic.

If the Democrats has nominated a middle-of-the-road guy to run against
Bush -- say, Dick Gephardt -- this election would not have even been close.
The Democrats would have swept the nation, and never by less than 25
percentage points.


Heck, if Bush was anywhere near the middle of the road, I might have
considered voting for him.


I actually had a very unusual experience this election. One of the
minor statewide offices here (Chairman of the State Agriculture
Commission) had two candidates that had almost identical experience
and who held almost identical views regarding the position they were
running for. What really made it strange, though, was the fact that I
agreed with their positions! It's extremely unusual for there to be
one candidate in a contest that I feel I can vote _for_, but two????
I almost didn't know what to do.

Rich Lemert