FAA

At 18:06 10 August 2003, Nolaminar wrote:
Has anyone ever experienced an FAA Ramp Check when
involved with soaring?
Any such experience at a meet or competiotion.

Yup. 15-Meter Nationals at Tonopah. One pilot randomly
selected by the inspector was asked to pull out of
the take-off line until the crew could return with
the guy's pilot certificate, which had been left at
the hotel 'for safekeeping.'

Judy

(MKEENE221) wrote in message ...
One pilot randomly
selected by the inspector was asked to pull out of
the take-off line until the crew could return with
the guy's pilot certificate, which had been left at
the hotel 'for safekeeping.'


Which prompts me to remind you that all you must show during a ramp check is
your pilot certificate and medical, if appropriate. No glider paperwork, no
logbooks, nada. They'll take anything you want to give them, but only the
above mentioned items are required. Be polite of course, because they're just
doing their job.

The local FSDO guys used to do ramp checks at Littlefield during contests.

Mark

Close but not wholly correct. During a ramp check the inspector can
ask to see your pilots license and medical (if appropriate) as well as
any paperwork that is required to be in the aircraft ie; airworthiness
certificate, registration, weight & balance, POH etc. You are correct
that log books and other paperwork do not need to be produced at that
time even if they are available. You can request that the inspector
send you a letter outlining any other papers, logs etc. that (s)he
wants to see and to make an appointment to do so. Being polite as you
said, is always the best approch.

Jay
3D

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
...
The FAA recently came by to inspect our rental PA-28-181 Archer.
We asked for ID, the two inspectors provided it, and they
went through the books and papers and placards.

The only deficiency was a missing "compass correction card."
We called the owner, and he described where it was (on the
panel, not below the compass). That was it, and they left.

A week later the FAA sent us a letter saying the plane had
passed just fine and thanking us for being cooperative.

I wonder how a 2-33 would fare in the same inspection.
The only required equipment at the time of manufacture
was an ASI (if one believes the dog-eared POH). But the
part 91 VFR rules currently want an altimeter and
compass as well.

I must say I would be a bit taken aback if I was
in line for launch and was pulled off the line for a
missing compass correction card.


Mark Boyd



TRIVIA TO FOLLOW

P.S. The Taylorcraft BC-12D was certified for IFR flight
using only needle, ball, and airspeed (see the POH).
But current part 91 IFR rules obviously require more.

Some gliders also say "cloud flying permitted" in
the POH. I'd consider it a no-no, but I suppose
a very rich person could install the part 91 required
equipment to make a glider IFR. I've gotten blocks
of airspace and altitude before in a power plane,
so maybe this could be done legally, but what a hassle!
I suspect there are quite a few glider pilots that
cloud fly occasionally well away from airways and
airspace. I have heard of one midair between two
gliders in the clouds, however, where both circled in
a thermal. Ouch!


There have been some IFR equipped gliders (IIRC, Carl Herold's old Nimbus
was so equipped and flown under IFR frequently. Don't know if his newer one
is so equipped). WRT the collision, perhaps you are referring to the
mid-air in cloud at the World's in the former Yugoslavia, though there may
be others.

Having flown in clouds in the UK in both thermal and wave, I found it both
an interesting and exciting aspect of soaring. FWIW, when the UK pilots fly
comps on the Continent, they have to remove their Bohli compasses, in
addition to any horizon and T/S.

Frank Whiteley

The FAA recently came by to inspect our rental PA-28-181 Archer.
We asked for ID, the two inspectors provided it, and they
went through the books and papers and placards.

The only deficiency was a missing "compass correction card."
We called the owner, and he described where it was (on the
panel, not below the compass). That was it, and they left.

A week later the FAA sent us a letter saying the plane had
passed just fine and thanking us for being cooperative.

I wonder how a 2-33 would fare in the same inspection.
The only required equipment at the time of manufacture
was an ASI (if one believes the dog-eared POH). But the
part 91 VFR rules currently want an altimeter and
compass as well.

I must say I would be a bit taken aback if I was
in line for launch and was pulled off the line for a
missing compass correction card.


Mark Boyd



TRIVIA TO FOLLOW

P.S. The Taylorcraft BC-12D was certified for IFR flight
using only needle, ball, and airspeed (see the POH).
But current part 91 IFR rules obviously require more.

Some gliders also say "cloud flying permitted" in
the POH. I'd consider it a no-no, but I suppose
a very rich person could install the part 91 required
equipment to make a glider IFR. I've gotten blocks
of airspace and altitude before in a power plane,
so maybe this could be done legally, but what a hassle!
I suspect there are quite a few glider pilots that
cloud fly occasionally well away from airways and
airspace. I have heard of one midair between two
gliders in the clouds, however, where both circled in
a thermal. Ouch!

"F.L. Whiteley" wrote:

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
...

Some gliders also say "cloud flying permitted" in
the POH. I'd consider it a no-no, but I suppose
a very rich person could install the part 91 required
equipment to make a glider IFR.

Cloud flying is forbidden in the USA, however, it's allowed in many
European countries. The procedures vary from country to country.

Having flown in clouds in the UK in both thermal and wave, I found it both
an interesting and exciting aspect of soaring. FWIW, when the UK pilots fly
comps on the Continent, they have to remove their Bohli compasses, in
addition to any horizon and T/S.

In contests, cloud flying is generally forbidden. To enforce this, the
horizon and the needle (but not the compass) must be removed or covered
and sealed. The reason is that in contests, pilots would routinely
violate separation rules, resulting in midairs.

Stefan

I wonder how a 2-33 would fare in the same inspection.
The only required equipment at the time of manufacture
was an ASI (if one believes the dog-eared POH). But the
part 91 VFR rules currently want an altimeter and
compass as well.

Not true.

- Rich Carr

I wonder how a 2-33 would fare in the same inspection.
The only required equipment at the time of manufacture
was an ASI (if one believes the dog-eared POH). But the
part 91 VFR rules currently want an altimeter and
compass as well.

Not true.

From page 1-2 of the Schweizer 2-33 sailplane flight-erection-maintenance
manual, form F-114 (General Description section):

"6. Instruments:
Front only - ASI is required. Additional instruments may be
added, up to a full panel, as desired.
NOTE: Instrument flight is prohibited, regardless of instrumentation."

From 91.205
"powered civil aircraft with a standard category U.S. airworthiness
certificate"

Aha! The VFR requirements apply to POWERED aircraft.

I stand corrected. Like the ELT, I am fortunate that someone
has forced me to consult the regs carefully... Thank you...


Mark Boyd

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
Stefan "stefan"@mus. INVALID .ch wrote
Cloud flying is forbidden in the USA

This is not correct. Cloud flying is permitted in the USA, in
controlled airspace on an IFR flight plan or in uncontrolled airspace
with no flight plan. There's not much uncontrolled airspace suitable
for cloud flying, though. There are pilot certification and recency
of experience requirements in Part 61.

More explicitly, an Instrument Rating is required for the pilot.

I have had one-on-one discussions with ATC supervisors about the
possibilities of cloud flights and came away with the impression that they
(ATC) would do all they could to make such flights possible - if you played
by their rules.

Not very likely to be able to follow ATC's rules. You have to be on an
instrument flight plan and ATC would expect you to hold heading and altitude.
You also would have to be transponder equiped. ATC will work with you and it
is possible to educate them of your needs but they are not used to gliders and
if other traffic is in the area ATC is not likely to let you not hold heading
and alt.

"Shaber CJ" wrote in message
...
I have had one-on-one discussions with ATC supervisors about the
possibilities of cloud flights and came away with the impression that
they
(ATC) would do all they could to make such flights possible - if you
played
by their rules.

Not very likely to be able to follow ATC's rules. You have to be on an
instrument flight plan and ATC would expect you to hold heading and
altitude.
You also would have to be transponder equiped. ATC will work with you and
it
is possible to educate them of your needs but they are not used to gliders
and
if other traffic is in the area ATC is not likely to let you not hold
heading
and alt.

Actually, creative use of "cruise" clearances which allow altitude changes
within an assigned altitude band and course deviations for "weather" can
allow a glider pilot almost total freedom within the ATC system. A variant
of the cruise clearance is "climb while holding" which permits a climb in
cloud with guaranteed separation from all other traffic.

It all depends on your relationship with the ATC facility. IFR flights are
not as rigidly controlled as it would seem from the first reading of the FAA
"Instrument Flying Handbook". There are areas of the USA where IFR traffic
is very sparse and consequently, controllers get very bored. Some of them
look at handling gliders as a welcome diversion.

Even so, it takes a very skilled and disciplined pilot to make all this
work - and, yes, you need a Mode C transponder in addition to all the other
IFR goodies.

Bill Daniels