IFR Cancellation Question

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
k.net:


"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

What do you mean "how is it done?" The pilot is in communication
with ATC, the reg says the pilot must be in communication with
ATC.


Communication with any ATC facility satisfies the requirements of the
reg? Doesn't the reg specify communication with the ATC facility
providing air traffic services in that airspace?

You should know of all people Steven that it may not be necessary to talk
to class D tower if there is a letter of agreement between ATC components.

Just like Mark said, pilot is in communication with ATC.

I have been in HKS airspace many a times without talking to tower while
manuevering around downtown Jackson at 2000 feet. I have always been in
contact with JAN during these times and never switched over to HKS.

Allen

When *is* "time to switch"? Again, I had thought - by inferring from how
I've been handled - that it's time to switch when I actually have the
field in sight.

IMHO, It's time to switch when you're close enough in for a position
report to be helpful to local traffic, and far enough out for there to
be time to listen, to give it, and have an appropriate response (which
you may or may not not hear). Three miles is probably too close, ten is
probably not necessary. You can of course elect to terminate FF any
time you want, especially if you are confident in finding the runway.
You can always come back on freq. and ask for help.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote in
:

You can of course elect to terminate FF
any time you want, especially if you are confident in finding the
runway. You can always come back on freq. and ask for help.

If you have to go back on frequency to ask for help in finding an airport,
I'd say you are way behind the airplane or less then VFR conditions.

Allen

If you have to go back on frequency to ask for help in finding an airport,
I'd say you are way behind the airplane or less then VFR conditions.

Maybe, and that's a time to ask for help. But maybe the airport is
actually hard to spot. Many grass strips are like that, especially if
unfamiliar, a little hazy, and not very prominent to begin with.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Alan Gerber" wrote in message
...

What if you're just a couple of miles from the field but haven't
reported it in sight?


I'm not sure. I wouldn't want to drop from the frequency without flight
following being terminated.


Why not?



If I didn't report it because I didn't see
it, I'd ask for help finding it.


Would you make that request when you were just a couple of miles from the
field, or would you make it a bit earlier than that?



If I didn't report it because I just
dropped from the frequency, what would happen?


Probably nothing. It's not uncommon for VFR pilots to do just that.



Would it trigger S&R procedures?


No. Loss of radio and radar contact in an area where the controller would
expect to have both would trigger a search, but not lass of radio contact
alone.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
Instructing VFR aircraft on flight following to advise when they have the
field in sight is not standard procedure and does not have any useful
purpose.

I didn't know that. I've always received that instruction; maybe it's a
regional thing?

When *is* "time to switch"? Again, I had thought - by inferring from how
I've been handled - that it's time to switch when I actually have the
field in sight.

It's time to switch at a point that will allow the aircraft to contact the
tower before entering Class D airspace.

Is that really a necessary demarcation if approach is going to hand me off
to the tower?

Because if I'm having trouble spotting the field, either I need help
because it's hard to find, or I'm just not in the right place (i.e.,
"lost"), and need help finding it because I'm lost.

How is keeping flight following, by itself, beneficial in those cases?

It's not particularly necessary, but it sure does save time. I got lost
on my first student cross-country solo, and it was a lot easier to ask
Approach for help, since I already had a squawk code, and, even though *I*
didn't know where I was, *they* already did. I could have contacted them
and gotten the same help, but it was faster since I was already - pardon
the expression - on their radar.

.... Alan
--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
I'm not sure. I wouldn't want to drop from the frequency without flight
following being terminated.

Why not?

Because I assumed it would be smoother to formally terminate it. I also
thought that it could trigger S&R, depending on the circumstances.

From your response below, though, I see my assumptions are unfounded.

If I didn't report it because I didn't see
it, I'd ask for help finding it.


Would you make that request when you were just a couple of miles from the
field, or would you make it a bit earlier than that?

It depends. If I were looking for a field inside a B or C airspace, or
with somewhere I didn't want to go on the other side, I'd probably ask for
help sooner, rather than risk being in the wrong place. Otherwise, I'd
probably make the request *later*, after trying to find it on my own.

(In case anybody forgets the context, we're talking VFR here, not IFR.)

If I didn't report it because I just
dropped from the frequency, what would happen?

Probably nothing. It's not uncommon for VFR pilots to do just that.

That's good to know. Not that I'd do it on purpose, but it's nice to know
it's acceptable.

Would it trigger S&R procedures?

No. Loss of radio and radar contact in an area where the controller would
expect to have both would trigger a search, but not lass of radio contact
alone.

Again, that's good to know.

.... Alan
--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com

"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...

You should know of all people Steven that it may not be necessary to talk
to class D tower if there is a letter of agreement between ATC components.

Just like Mark said, pilot is in communication with ATC.

I have been in HKS airspace many a times without talking to tower while
manuevering around downtown Jackson at 2000 feet. I have always been in
contact with JAN during these times and never switched over to HKS.


We're not talking about those kinds of flights. We're talking about a
flight that intends to land at a towered field at the center of Class D
airspace

On 12/26/06 11:41, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...

You should know of all people Steven that it may not be necessary to talk
to class D tower if there is a letter of agreement between ATC components.

Just like Mark said, pilot is in communication with ATC.

I have been in HKS airspace many a times without talking to tower while
manuevering around downtown Jackson at 2000 feet. I have always been in
contact with JAN during these times and never switched over to HKS.


We're not talking about those kinds of flights. We're talking about a
flight that intends to land at a towered field at the center of Class D
airspace



But earlier in this thread, you said:

Yes, if he's not talking to the tower when he enters Class D airspace he's
busted FAR 91.129(c)(1).


Now, you say that applies only if the pilot intends to land at the Class D
airport? Where is that distinction mentioned in the regs?

"Alan Gerber" wrote in message
...

Is that really a necessary demarcation if approach is going to hand me off
to the tower?


What do you mean by hand you off to the tower? A handoff is a radar
function.



It's not particularly necessary, but it sure does save time. I got lost
on my first student cross-country solo, and it was a lot easier to ask
Approach for help, since I already had a squawk code, and, even though *I*
didn't know where I was, *they* already did. I could have contacted them
and gotten the same help, but it was faster since I was already - pardon
the expression - on their radar.


Flight following, by itself, is just traffic advisories.