NOTAM!

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:25:20 GMT, Larry Dighera wrote:

Hydrazine doesn't seem like it would present too large of a problem if
it burned in the upper atmosphere. Does anyone know just how much
hydrazine is involved?

Half a ton. Probably frozen solid, but without telemetry, there's no way to
tell.

Is the hazard more from a tank full of the stuff making it to the
surface intact?

I'd suspect the problem is if it makes it intact. The Wikipedia article refers
to its use in the Me-163 Komet of WWII. The plane occasionally *dissolved*
pilots during accidents....

Ron Wanttaja

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:gpXuj.42015$9j6.32075@attbi_s22...

02/062 (A0038/08) - AIRSPACE CARF NR. 90 ON EVELYN STATIONARY RESERVATION
WITHIN AN AREA BNDD BY 3145N 17012W 2824N 16642W 2352N 16317W 1909N
16129W 1241N 16129W 1239N 16532W 1842N 17057W 2031N 17230W 2703N
17206W SFC-UNL. 21 FEB 02:30 2008 UNTIL 21 FEB 05:00 2008. CREATED: 18
FEB 12:51 2008

Ah, communication. Who *writes* these things? I can't even tell you
what state(s) this thing is talking about, without donning my pilots
decoder ring.


You shouldn't have to study it very long to realize the area described is in
the Pacific Ocean and the only US state in the general vicinity is Hawaii.



I still remember flying in the desert Southwest, far from home, and having
a briefer read a forest fire NOTAM to me in this sort of language, over
the radio. No reference to landmarks. No reference to cities. Just
LAT/LON. Useless.


It's not useless if you carry charts.



Almost as bad are the ones that say "13 miles from the Blather VOR, on the
178 radial" -- leaving you to figure out where in hell the Blather VOR
is... Good luck finding it on your sectional chart, in flight, in the
dark.


Why would you have to find Blather VOR at all? If you know where you are
and you can't find Blather VOR anyehere near your position or route you know
the NOTAM doesn't affect you.



Is there some reason these things can't use commonly known landmarks
(cities, national parks, rivers, etc.) to communicate their message?


That would make locating them more difficult.

"Denny" wrote in message
...
Terry,
Thanks for the comments
Yes, I want the US Gov't to have kept it's mouth shut until they
accomplished the deed... As you point out it will be a heck of an
accomplishment - which means it is hard, not easy... I feel they have
been spooked by the Chinese, so they feel they have to 'catch up'...
Same reponse to Sputnik in 57.. And if so, the odds are the early
going will be the same results..


PBS just had a NOVA documentary on Sputnik and the US side of the story. We
had a Redstone rocket ready to go BEFORE Sputnik but egos got in the way and
the Russians beat us to it. It was a really good program though.

"Denny" wrote in message ...
I have a bad feeling about the military's intent to publically take a
shot at it... dumb, dumb, dumb, and dumber - and likely to fail...
So, here we go again, the laughing stock of the world...
Also, totally unnecessary as the heat of reentry will set off the
'toxic' hypergolic fuel leaving nothing but scrap metal to impact...
So, the desire to destroy HAS to be based in other reasons...
At least the chinese were smart enough to take their shots in secret
and only announce AFTER they hit it...
But not our gov't and pentagon, nope, no waay, shoot their mouths off
ahead of time so we can look really stupid...

denny

Only in your own mind...

Mmm... Would that be a yawn at the thought of McCain's hawkish stand
and Bush endorsement (more of the same), a cringe at Huckabee's
Christian supremist agenda in persecution the Crusades, and a laugh at
Clinton's desperate reliance on feminine emotional displays to soften
here image in the public eye?

I wasn't even considering Huckabee.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Feb 20, 10:10*am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
02/062 (A0038/08) - AIRSPACE CARF NR. 90 ON EVELYN STATIONARY RESERVATION
WITHIN AN AREA BNDD BY 3145N 17012W 2824N 16642W 2352N 16317W 1909N
16129W 1241N 16129W 1239N 16532W 1842N 17057W 2031N 17230W 2703N 17206W
SFC-UNL. 21 FEB 02:30 2008 UNTIL 21 FEB 05:00 2008. CREATED: 18 FEB 12:51
2008

Ah, communication. * Who *writes* these things? * I can't even tell you what
state(s) this thing is talking about, without donning my pilots decoder
ring.

I still remember flying in the desert Southwest, far from home, and having a
briefer read a forest fire NOTAM to me in this sort of language, over the
radio. *No reference to landmarks. *No reference to cities. *Just LAT/LON.
Useless.

Almost as bad are the ones that say "13 miles from the Blather VOR, on the
178 radial" -- leaving you to figure out where in hell the Blather VOR is....
Good luck finding it on your sectional chart, in flight, in the dark.

Is there some reason these things can't use commonly known landmarks
(cities, national parks, rivers, etc.) to communicate their message? * Or
are we back to that "In the olden days, computer disk space was very
expensive, so we developed cryptic shorthand codes to enable us to deliver
lots of information" excuse -- even though I can now buy a terabyte hard
drive for a couple of hundred bucks at Best Buy?

The only worse example of communication in aviation (IMHO) is the IFR
student practicing approaches who announces their position to a full VFR
pattern by saying "I'm on the published missed for the GPS 25 approach".
Those words convey nothing to VFR pilots.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

It is to separate the men from the boys Jay. g

Wil

On Feb 20, 7:35*am, Denny wrote:
I have a bad feeling about the military's intent to publically take a
shot at it... dumb, dumb, dumb, and dumber - and likely to fail...
So, here we go again, the laughing stock of the world...
Also, totally unnecessary as the heat of reentry will set off the
'toxic' hypergolic fuel leaving nothing but scrap metal to impact...
So, the desire to destroy HAS to be based in other reasons...
At least the chinese were smart enough to take their shots in secret
and only announce AFTER they hit it...
But not our gov't and pentagon, nope, no waay, shoot their mouths off
ahead of time so we can look really stupid...

denny

It was a hit! No worries mate.

Wil

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23265613/

Navy missile hits spy satellite
Extraordinary operation requires steady seas and optimum positioning


WASHINGTON - A missile launched from a Navy ship successfully struck
a
dying U.S. spy satellite passing 130 miles over the Pacific on
Wednesday, a defense official said.


Two officials said the missile was launched successfully just after
10:30 p.m. ET. One official, who is close to the process, said it hit
the target. He said details on the results were not immediately
known.


The goal in this first-of-its-kind mission for the Navy was not just
to hit the satellite but to obliterate a tank aboard the spacecraft
carrying 1,000 pounds of a toxic fuel called hydrazine.


U.S. officials have said the fuel would pose a potential health
hazard
to humans if it landed in a populated area. Although the odds of that
were small even if the Pentagon had chosen not to try to shoot down
the satellite, it was determined that it was worth trying to
eliminate
even that small chance.


Officials said it might take a day or longer to know for sure if the
toxic fuel was blown up.


The government has organized hazardous materials teams to be flown to
the site of any dangerous or otherwise sensitive debris that might
land in the U.S. or elsewhere. The operation was so extraordinary,
with such intense international publicity and political
ramifications,
that Defense Secretary Robert Gates -- not a military commander --
made
the final decision to pull the trigger.


The U.S. government organized hazardous materials teams, under the
code name "Burnt Frost," to be flown to the site of any dangerous or
otherwise sensitive debris that might land in the United States or
elsewhere.


High seas in the north Pacific had threatened to postpone the launch
as the USS Lake Erie prepared a three-stage missile. Beyond a certain
point, rough seas can interfere with the cruiser's launch procedures.


The NAvy launched a SM-3 missile 130 miles to just beyond the edge of
the Earth's atmosphere in an attempt to speed its non-explosive
warhead directly into the satellite.


Early in the day, a senior military officer said it did not look as
if
the weather would be good enough. That was shortly after the space
shuttle Atlantis landed, removing the last safety issue for the
military to begin determining the best moment for launch.


The aim was not just to hit the bus-sized satellite -- which would
burn
up upon re-entering the atmosphere anyway -- but to obliterate a tank
onboard that is carrying 1,000 pounds of hydrazine, a toxic fuel. The
fuel, unused because the satellite died shortly after reaching orbit
in December 2006 -- could be hazardous if it landed in a populated
area.


The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a health
bulletin saying that the health risk from satellite debris was
considered to be low. "However, CDC is encouraging health officials
and clinicians to review information about the health effects related
to hydrazine to prepare in case their communities are affected by
satellite debris."


In a routine precaution, notifications have been issued worldwide to
mariners and aviators to stay clear of an area in the Pacific where
the satellite debris might fall. The military has calculated that the
risk to aviation is so low that U.S. and international aviation
officials decided not to reroute air traffic, a senior military
officer said Wednesday.


The shootdown, which was approved by President George W. Bush, is
seen
by some as blurring the lines between defending against a hostile
long-
range missile and targeting satellites in orbit.


Much of the equipment used in the satellite shootdown was part of the
Pentagon's missile defense system, a far-flung network of
interceptors, radars and communications systems designed primarily to
hit an incoming hostile ballistic missile fired at the United States
by North Korea. The equipment, including the Navy missile, has never
been used against a satellite or other such target.


The three-stage Navy missile has chalked up a high rate of success in
tests since 2002 -- in each case targeting a short- or medium-range
missile. A hurry-up program to adapt the missile for this anti-
satellite mission was completed in a matter of weeks; Navy officials
say the changes will be reversed once this satellite is down.


Left alone, the satellite would have been expected to hit Earth
during
the first week of March. About half of the 5,000-pound spacecraft
would be expected to survive its blazing descent through the
atmosphere and would scatter debris over several hundred miles.

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:46:49 -0800 (PST), William Hung
wrote:


WASHINGTON - A missile launched from a Navy ship successfully struck
a
dying U.S. spy satellite passing 130 miles over the Pacific on
Wednesday, a defense official said.

Dying? That sucker was deat a week after they launched it.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On 2008-02-20 04:35:34 -0800, Denny said:

I have a bad feeling about the military's intent to publically take a
shot at it... dumb, dumb, dumb, and dumber - and likely to fail...
So, here we go again, the laughing stock of the world...
Also, totally unnecessary as the heat of reentry will set off the
'toxic' hypergolic fuel leaving nothing but scrap metal to impact...
So, the desire to destroy HAS to be based in other reasons...
At least the chinese were smart enough to take their shots in secret
and only announce AFTER they hit it...
But not our gov't and pentagon, nope, no waay, shoot their mouths off
ahead of time so we can look really stupid...

denny

No, you are speaking only for yourself...
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:gpXuj.42015$9j6.32075@attbi_s22:



The only worse example of communication in aviation (IMHO) is the IFR
student practicing approaches who announces their position to a full
VFR pattern by saying "I'm on the published missed for the GPS 25
approach". Those words convey nothing to VFR pilots.


Oh great, another perambulating menace.


Bertie