A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

soaring on Mars?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old January 17th 21, 07:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,463
Default soaring on Mars?

All you fixed wing weenies seemed to have glossed over the the fact that the first (heavier that "air") aircraft to fly on another planet will be the helicopter. On this planet it was the Wright 1902 glider.
Imagine the 3rd generation of first flights.
On Saturday, January 16, 2021 at 7:40:50 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 1/15/21 7:43 PM, 5Z wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 5:48:31 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 1/15/21 6:39 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:13:49 -0800, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

As any true aviator (helicopter pilot) knows the first flight on another
world will be by the premier of all aircraft, the helicopter.

Mankind's magic carpet.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/s...pter-nasa.html

Yep, heard about it, but thanks for posting that URL. It will be
interesting to see how well it does on RealMars (TM). In Martian
conditions a helicopter makes more sense than a powered plane or glider
because it should have a much lower landing speed.

BTW, the Aurora ARES design had an inverted V tail on twin booms to keep
the stabiliser clear of exhaust from a rocket unit mounted on the centre
line at the wing's TE) - a common design in the S-8P rocket glider RC
competition class which, oddly enough, Bob Parks competes in with his own-
design models.


What helicopter can fly at 100,000' (the air density in the Martian
atmosphere)? If there is one, I'd like to know about the rotor design
as my gyro plane can't get much above 10,000'. Oh yeah, it'll have to
carry its own oxygen for combustion unless it's going to get really exotic.


Well Dan, if you read the article, you'll see:

"About 20 years ago, it couldn’t have been possible, really, because of the math,” said Ms. Aung who was a deputy manager of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory’s autonomous systems division before joining the Mars project.

But a number of advances, such as miniaturization of electronics, batteries that stored more energy and materials that could be shaped into lightweight blades, had finally made the dream of Mars flying machines into a technological possibility, Ms. Aung said.

Well Tom, I guess I've got a lot of reading to do.

Do you remember Joe Berger? I believe he submitted a proposal for a
fold up glider for the Mars project. Wonder what ever became of it/him.

--
Dan
5J

  #12  
Old January 17th 21, 08:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default soaring on Mars?

Highest I could find was the Mil Mi-8 at 30,000'. The air at 30,000' on
Earth is a lot thicker than on Mars at any altitude. So, how can it be
done with a helicopter?

On 1/17/21 11:02 AM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
All you fixed wing weenies seemed to have glossed over the the fact that the first (heavier that "air") aircraft to fly on another planet will be the helicopter. On this planet it was the Wright 1902 glider.
Imagine the 3rd generation of first flights.
On Saturday, January 16, 2021 at 7:40:50 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 1/15/21 7:43 PM, 5Z wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 5:48:31 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 1/15/21 6:39 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:13:49 -0800, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

As any true aviator (helicopter pilot) knows the first flight on another
world will be by the premier of all aircraft, the helicopter.

Mankind's magic carpet.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/s...pter-nasa.html

Yep, heard about it, but thanks for posting that URL. It will be
interesting to see how well it does on RealMars (TM). In Martian
conditions a helicopter makes more sense than a powered plane or glider
because it should have a much lower landing speed.

BTW, the Aurora ARES design had an inverted V tail on twin booms to keep
the stabiliser clear of exhaust from a rocket unit mounted on the centre
line at the wing's TE) - a common design in the S-8P rocket glider RC
competition class which, oddly enough, Bob Parks competes in with his own-
design models.


What helicopter can fly at 100,000' (the air density in the Martian
atmosphere)? If there is one, I'd like to know about the rotor design
as my gyro plane can't get much above 10,000'. Oh yeah, it'll have to
carry its own oxygen for combustion unless it's going to get really exotic.

Well Dan, if you read the article, you'll see:

"About 20 years ago, it couldn’t have been possible, really, because of the math,” said Ms. Aung who was a deputy manager of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory’s autonomous systems division before joining the Mars project.

But a number of advances, such as miniaturization of electronics, batteries that stored more energy and materials that could be shaped into lightweight blades, had finally made the dream of Mars flying machines into a technological possibility, Ms. Aung said.

Well Tom, I guess I've got a lot of reading to do.

Do you remember Joe Berger? I believe he submitted a proposal for a
fold up glider for the Mars project. Wonder what ever became of it/him.

--
Dan
5J



--
Dan
5J
  #13  
Old January 17th 21, 10:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 699
Default soaring on Mars?

On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 12:56:41 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Highest I could find was the Mil Mi-8 at 30,000'. The air at 30,000' on
Earth is a lot thicker than on Mars at any altitude. So, how can it be
done with a helicopter?


'Simplicate and add lightness' (wish I knew who first said that).

Judging be the look of the Mars Helicopter that will be carried by the
Mars 2020 mission's rover, that's pretty much exactly what they did: it
has a single rotor shaft supporting a pair of contra-rotating two-blade
rotors. Its electric powwred, but with a relatively small battery and, to
keep it chanrged, a set of photocells mounted on top of the rotor mast.

https://mars.nasa.gov/technology/helicopter/

Well, only 31 days until it lands on Mars and, since the plot is to fly
the chopper before the rover goes off exploring the crater it should land
in, we haven't long to wait before we see if it can fly.



--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #14  
Old January 17th 21, 11:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default soaring on Mars?

Sounds terrific!

'Simplicate and add lightness' (wish I knew who first said that). It
was Orville (or Wilbur) Wright that said that.

On 1/17/21 2:06 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 12:56:41 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Highest I could find was the Mil Mi-8 at 30,000'. The air at 30,000' on
Earth is a lot thicker than on Mars at any altitude. So, how can it be
done with a helicopter?


'Simplicate and add lightness' (wish I knew who first said that).

Judging be the look of the Mars Helicopter that will be carried by the
Mars 2020 mission's rover, that's pretty much exactly what they did: it
has a single rotor shaft supporting a pair of contra-rotating two-blade
rotors. Its electric powwred, but with a relatively small battery and, to
keep it chanrged, a set of photocells mounted on top of the rotor mast.

https://mars.nasa.gov/technology/helicopter/

Well, only 31 days until it lands on Mars and, since the plot is to fly
the chopper before the rover goes off exploring the crater it should land
in, we haven't long to wait before we see if it can fly.





--
Dan
5J
  #15  
Old January 17th 21, 11:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mark Mocho
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 108
Default soaring on Mars?

On June 21, 1972, Jean Boulet of France piloted an Aérospatiale SA 315B Lama helicopter to an absolute altitude record of 40,814 feet (12,440 m).

And on May 14, 2005, Didier Delsalle became the first (and only) person to land a helicopter, the Eurocopter AS350 Squirrel, on the 8,848 m (29,030 ft) summit of Mount Everest.

Pretty cool accomplishments, but Perlan 2 got to 76,124 ft. on September 2, 2018 for the highest altitude achieved in a (manned, unpowered) glider.

And, as a "fixed wing weenie" who also appreciates helicopters, I challenge ol' Jonathan to a power off glide contest. Heck, I know some wingsuit guys who would also beat his rotors off in a glide duel.
  #16  
Old January 18th 21, 03:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 699
Default soaring on Mars?

On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 15:49:59 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Sounds terrific!

'Simplicate and add lightness' (wish I knew who first said that). It
was Orville (or Wilbur) Wright that said that.

I just did a search: it seems to be more generally attributed to William
Bushnell Stout, who designed the Ford Trimotor and secondarily to Colin
Chapman, the engineer behind Lotus cars, who said something very similar.


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Martin JRM Mars Flying Boat pics [18/21] - Martin-JRM-3-Mars-Bu_No__-76822-Marshall-Mars.jpg (1/1) Miloch Aviation Photos 0 July 7th 16 03:56 PM
Soaring on Mars? Roy Clark, B6 Soaring 5 March 27th 05 09:45 AM
Soaring on a terraformed Mars - winter diversions Bill Daniels Soaring 4 January 30th 04 11:28 PM
For Lennie - soaring on Mars Mike Borgelt Soaring 0 September 30th 03 01:42 AM
Soaring on Mars puffnfresh Soaring 21 September 3rd 03 11:24 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.