Anyone dissapointed with Oshgosh?

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 20:49:04 -0700, Kevin O'Brien wrote:

Wood's good stuff. It's tough to beat wood for strength. Plenty of
planes have gone over 500 MPH
on wooden wings. (Me163, DH Vampire).

Actually, the wings on the DH Vampire were metal. "The DH-100 was of an
all metal construction apart from the cockpit section which was made from
ply and balsa wood as in the de Havilland Mosquito".

See: http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/His...00/Vampire.htm

This doesn't detract from the rest of your treatise though. There is
nothing wrong with wood as a construction material, as long as the
aircraft can be hangared.

--
Kevin Horton
Ottawa

Scott wrote:

Huh? I didn't see a single money box on any of the busses I took this
year...The shower facilities were just as crowded 28 years ago when I
started going to Oshkosh. I know it sounds expensive, but have you ever
gone to Disney for a whole week? I can almost guarantee Disney for a
week would be more expensive.


I don't want to go there either!

Warren

Ed's a EAA weenie and his reply's on the topic are highly suspect. Take
um with a truck load of salt.

Ed Wischmeyer wrote:
First, EAA is a 501(c)3 corporation, i.e., charitable, tax exempt.

SO!! Ever heard of of the Bakers? What's 501 status have to do with
anything. Any corporation can make people rich. The tax exempt status
can just makeum rich faster.

The EAA is fast loosing touch with its roots.

I hold my nose every year when I renew my subscription. One of these
years I'll give them up if they don't turn around and make the the
people building and flying experimental their top priority.

Scott

In article ,
(Daniel) writes:


First, EAA is a 501(c)3 corporation, i.e., charitable, tax exempt.

Charitable for tax purposes. It's a nonprofit. Doesn't mean they
can't take in more money than needed, just that they cannot disperse
it as profits, i.e. they have to spend it on the EAA. The result is
that like almost all nonprofits, the EAA has evolved into an
organization focused on & dedicated to its own itself rather than its
members. If you doubt that, look at how the EAA has grown while
homebuilding has shrunk.


Where do you come up the statement that Homebuilding has shrunk? I don't see
any signs that homebuilding in general has shrunk, only that certain areas of
homebuilding have evolved. If there is a limitation in the homebuilding area
it is the fact that fewer people seem to be getting into flying.

Where did your money go? ...

Read their IRS-990 filings (the mag only give totals). When you see
22 employees drawing salaries in excess of $50,000 excluding officers,
you start to get a clue. The 990's for the sister organizations, SnF,
the museums, etcetera read similarly.

Best advice? ...

Best advice if you're interested in experimental aviation would be to
skip EAA events & go to flyins instead.

Daniel

Do it then, but when your right to fly is revoked because the EAA and AOPA
didn't lobby to retain it, you can go to the local walkins.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

"Scott" wrote in message
...
Do you mean to imply that $50,000 a year is an exorbitant amount for an
employee to be paid? When new Chevy pickups cost $30,000 each for a
moderately equipped unit it isn't hard to see that $50K won't go very
far today if you want to indulge in things like flying. Are you also
implying that those employees do nothing and are getting a $50K handout
annually? Hell, I couldn't have much in the way of any hobbies on $50K
per year and we only have a small family of 3!

Scott

$50,000 isn't too much, but I do wish that I made it doing just one job, as
a teacher!
--
Jim in NC--

Earth to "bd5er", the ratio of "non-aviation commercial BS" to
aviation related stuff at Oshkosh is EXCEEDINGLY SMALL.

Earth to David: Can you count. Last time I attended I could walk down an
entire row in the flymart and not see a single aviatiion related booth. The
ratiio of aviation to BS HAS changed over the last 20 years. If I want all
that other BS I'll just attend the local county fair.

Understand this, the show will NEVER return to those lazy good ol'
days of yore when homebuilts were the biggest part of the show.

Then I may never return. Homebuilts is why I went. If that is not the main
attraction I'm not going to waste my time. Large numbers of people is not
really my "thing" but if they were there to talk HOMEBUILDING, and not plug
the isle up in front of the waterless cookware demo, than the more the better.

As for http://www.sportaviation.org/ :

He couldn't keep control of one organization and keep it on track (if that was
ever the intent) so what is there to make me think this group isn't headed down
the same track?

The only true homebuilt oriented flyins any more seem to be the little "type"
fly-ins. I'd love to look at Piets, T-18, Kr's, old Aeroncas, Swifts, ....the
list goes on. Oshkosh WAS the place to go to see all of that but now if you
want to actually talk to the owner and look under the cowl you have to fly to a
few dozen type events to do the same thing. With the "Airventure" trying to be
all things to all people it's original usefullness has been lost. When I first
went it was rare to see a plane roped off so you couldn't walk up and look
inside or crawl under the wing to look at some datail. But then we didn't have
the hoards of uneducated people ripping the planes apart due to ignorance.

If you think the "Airventure" is so great the way it is, that's fine with me.
But I either feel kind of sorry for you that you missed the "good 'ol days", or
wounder why you didn't really appreciate what we had and don't want to share
the good times with others again.

As for the cop-out catch all - "but it brings new people into, and promote,
general aviation". That IMHO opinion is NOT the job of the annual EAA fly in.
That job is yours and mine, every day of the year.

Do it then, but when your right to fly is revoked because the EAA and AOPA
didn't lobby to retain it, you can go to the local walkins.

That is not a job to be left to the EAA and the AOPA. That job is ours. We
should not be assisting them - THEY - should be assisting us. The next time
you overhear a discussion about those dangerous "hobby pilots" interrupt and
add some facts to the discussion. If the opportunity doesn't present it's self
bring up the subject at the lunch break gathering and spread some of our
collective wisdom around. Maybe if we take a bit more control of our own
destiny the EAA can spend more of it's time and resources on something novel -
like homebuilding.

I do as I say, but not enough. Democracy is a dangerous and repressive thing
when education is left out of the mix.

"BD5ER" wrote in message
...
Earth to "bd5er", the ratio of "non-aviation commercial BS" to
aviation related stuff at Oshkosh is EXCEEDINGLY SMALL.

Earth to David: Can you count. Last time I attended I could walk down an
entire row in the flymart and not see a single aviatiion related booth.
The
ratiio of aviation to BS HAS changed over the last 20 years. If I want
all
that other BS I'll just attend the local county fair.

Understand this, the show will NEVER return to those lazy good ol'
days of yore when homebuilts were the biggest part of the show.

Then I may never return. Homebuilts is why I went. If that is not the
main
attraction I'm not going to waste my time. Large numbers of people is not
really my "thing" but if they were there to talk HOMEBUILDING, and not
plug
the isle up in front of the waterless cookware demo, than the more the
better.

Because osh is so big, you can make anything out of it that you want to. If
the homebuilts are your thing, only look at the houmebuilt related things.
I'll still bet you could spend at least 3 days there, and not see all there
is to see. If warbirds are your thing, only look at the warbirds,,, and so
on.

Bottom line- go if you want, don't if you don't want - but....
Quit yer bitchin!!! You aren't going to change what is!

Think the serenity prayer.
--
Jim in NC--

Not entirely sure - heard secondhand, but while the EAA is a 501(c)3,
Airventure, is a FOR PROFIT organization. Interested in seeing Airventure's
FInancial information...

Timbo


"Ed Wischmeyer" wrote in message
...

I have been going to OSH for the last 5 years, but I get the distinct
impression that the EAA is screwing just about everyone it can screw.
For
instance, airplane camping and admission for the whole week runs into
the
hundreds of dollars. What do you get for it?

So where does all this money go? Or am I being unrealistic. Either way,
please tell me - I sure would like to know. Or is the EAA just another
greedy commercial enterprise?

First, EAA is a 501(c)3 corporation, i.e., charitable, tax exempt.

Where did your money go? Some of it goes to keep the dues down and to
run an organization that can, on the same day, attract and impress the
Secretary of Transportation, the Administrator of the FAA, and the Chair
of the NTSB, not to mention a couple of senators and representatives --
and to help protect your freedoms to fly by working with the regulators,
not just the Congress. Then there's the free airshow, free workshops
(which include free material to practice on), the free forums, the free
portapotties, the free onsite health care, free delivery from town of
prescription medicines, and the most comprehensive set of exhibitors to
visit with, plus the work during the rest of the year to get Sport
Pilot through so lots more people can fly, the work on making aviation
gasoline available after tetraethyl lead goes away because of economic
issues. Bear in mind that the facility only does two events per year
(it's rented out to Ducks Unlimited for their annual shebang), so there
are expenses that cannot be amortized year around.

Other folks have compared prices to "comparable" events with results
favorable to the EAA.

Best advice? Get plugged in, get a volunteer job. It's lots more fun
that way.

Ed Wischmeyer, volunteer for 9 years

. Bear in mind that the facility only does two events per year
(it's rented out to Ducks Unlimited for their annual shebang), so there
are expenses that cannot be amortize

I saw a show on ESPN, something to do with the world lumberjack competion, and
I swear that in the background I saw exhibit building 1 and 2 and the words
Airventure EAA.

Walt