Total Cost of Ownership

On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 8:20:26 AM UTC+3, Frank Whiteley wrote:
I'm told the SZD-54 manufacturer isn't bothered with a US STC because they are selling enough in Europe. There is an STC in Canada. I was also told German clubs are replacing their high time K-21's with SZD-54's.

Looks nice. About 4 points lower LD than DG1000 in both wingspans, but if it's significantly cheaper...

At the time we got our DG1000s it was I believe 60k for ASK21 and 70K for DG1000 (Euros). The difference in performance with all else being essentially equal made the 10k seem obviously worth it.

At Seminole-Lake Gliderport in Orlando we have a DG LLC that includes a DG-1000T, DG-800S, and an LS-8-18. These aircraft are all in a hangar assembled. We have 12 partners who payed $30k for entry and we divide all bills by 12 so our annual expense for everything is $1,500-$1,700 a year. Since the glider operation is open 6 days a week, we are lucky. The season in Florida is basically year round. Ships are allowed to go to contests and on the road for fun events. Only 2 out of 3 ships were in the Seniors which is a contest at our home field. It is rare that all 3 ships are flying at the same time. We have had members as far away as England or Iowa. With apartments available at the gliderport, our members from outside the area come in for a few days. We give preference to the out of towners for which aircraft they want to fly but that has never been a problem. Got friends to fly, take the 1000. Want to go XC, take the ship closest to the hangar door. We have been running for 10 years usually with a waiting list. When you're ready to leave, you sell the membership. So your glider experience costs $30k in $30k out and $1,700 a year for 3 high performance glass ships. Just for comparison, I also own an ASG-29Es and just my insurance bill is $2,200 a year! The LLC makes good sense. As always, you have to find what fits for you. This is just another example of how other soaring pilots found a more cost effective way to fly high performance gliders.
Rich Owen

On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 8:23:30 AM UTC-5, Rich Owen wrote:
At Seminole-Lake Gliderport in Orlando we have a DG LLC that includes a DG-1000T, DG-800S, and an LS-8-18. These aircraft are all in a hangar assembled. We have 12 partners who payed $30k for entry and we divide all bills by 12 so our annual expense for everything is $1,500-$1,700 a year. Since the glider operation is open 6 days a week, we are lucky. The season in Florida is basically year round. Ships are allowed to go to contests and on the road for fun events. Only 2 out of 3 ships were in the Seniors which is a contest at our home field. It is rare that all 3 ships are flying at the same time. We have had members as far away as England or Iowa. With apartments available at the gliderport, our members from outside the area come in for a few days. We give preference to the out of towners for which aircraft they want to fly but that has never been a problem. Got friends to fly, take the 1000. Want to go XC, take the ship closest to the hangar door. We have been running for 10 years usually with a waiting list. When you're ready to leave, you sell the membership. So your glider experience costs $30k in $30k out and $1,700 a year for 3 high performance glass ships. Just for comparison, I also own an ASG-29Es and just my insurance bill is $2,200 a year! The LLC makes good sense. As always, you have to find what fits for you. This is just another example of how other soaring pilots found a more cost effective way to fly high performance gliders.
Rich Owen

Seminole is one of my favorite places to soar, especially in "out of season" months in the northern states. But let us not forget in the calculations the additional cost of flying in to Orlando from England or Iowa. The good news is that thanks to the Disney World those air tickets seem to be subsidized and kept quite low.

Tom BravoMike

On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 11:20:26 PM UTC-6, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 9:48:53 PM UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Out of Truckee there is a club with a DG 505 or 500.

I think you may be thinking of the Hollister based club that relocates to other sites during the season. They own a DG1000 and DG505 plus a couple of singles. That club doesn't train or tow their members, using commercial operators for those services.

A quick look shows there are
64 ASK-21's on the FAA registry.
48 owned by clubs, perhaps others are leased to clubs. One appears to be in a private club.

18 DG-500/505's total
3 owned by clubs, perhaps 1 or 2 leased to clubs.

35 DG-1000/1001
2 in clubs it appears, 19 at USAFA

6 SZD-50
3 in clubs

33 Duo Discus
5 in clubs

Quite a number of the above not in clubs are owned by individuals, some in LLC's and the rest by commercial operators and some in non-profit flight schools.

I'm told the SZD-54 manufacturer isn't bothered with a US STC because they are selling enough in Europe. There is an STC in Canada. I was also told German clubs are replacing their high time K-21's with SZD-54's.

Frank Whiteley

Forgot the PW-6U

9 on the registry
6 in clubs

I have found that if my budget is humble or extravagant I spend every penny I can beg borrow or steal, always a bit more than I have budgeted. Budget are for married or responsible people. However, whatever your budget is there is a way to get in the air on a regular basis. My home glider port rents 1-26's and 2-33 for next to nothing, the cost of the tow being the biggest cost, about $50. Funny how flying is now cheaper than skiing. Clubs like the ones mentioned above are extremely good deals. I would think the biggest cost of ownership/ flying is the cost of tows, which in itself is still a great deal, but figure 40 tows at $50 for the year, or $2,000.

On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 11:45:48 AM UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I have found that if my budget is humble or extravagant I spend every penny I can beg borrow or steal, always a bit more than I have budgeted. Budget are for married or responsible people. However, whatever your budget is there is a way to get in the air on a regular basis. My home glider port rents 1-26's and 2-33 for next to nothing, the cost of the tow being the biggest cost, about $50. Funny how flying is now cheaper than skiing. Clubs like the ones mentioned above are extremely good deals. I would think the biggest cost of ownership/ flying is the cost of tows, which in itself is still a great deal, but figure 40 tows at $50 for the year, or $2,000.

A winch is a license to print money for a club. (not my quote)