Verifying flap retraction

One of the more experienced pilots in our club scared himself climbing out
of a touch and go during which he didn't notice that the flaps had frozen at
20 degrees on our 172.

I've been investigating the flap system on Cessna's and am impressed how
easily a bit of fluff or corrosion in just one switch can let the flaps go
down but then fail to retract.

This leaves me convinced that CFI's and all of us should be drilling in the
glance over the shoulder to verify retraction on all touch and goes and go
arounds. Practicing climb outs from minimum airspeed with all flap settings
is a very neglected part of airwork and probably as important to safety as
doing stalls.

--

Roger Long

One of the more experienced pilots in our club scared himself climbing out
of a touch and go during which he didn't notice that the flaps had frozen at
20 degrees on our 172.

I've been investigating the flap system on Cessna's and am impressed how
easily a bit of fluff or corrosion in just one switch can let the flaps go
down but then fail to retract.

This leaves me convinced that CFI's and all of us should be drilling in the
glance over the shoulder to verify retraction on all touch and goes and go
arounds. Practicing climb outs from minimum airspeed with all flap settings
is a very neglected part of airwork and probably as important to safety as
doing stalls.

Well, exactly what would you do about it if you're flying a missed approach or
a touch and go and found your flaps had not retracted?

For what it's worth, I somehow don't find climbing out with flaps extended as
scary a prospect as having a pilot not recognize when the aircraft is close to
stall.

You should be able to recognize from the feel that the flaps have not
retracted and fly out of it. The way to be sure of doing both of these
things is to practice to learn how the plane feels and how to handle it.

Intentional touch and gos should be done with enough runway that you can put
the flap lever up, take a look, and pull power to abort if they don't move.
Aborting a landing a the last second is also a good thing to practice.

--

Roger Long



"AJW" wrote in message
...

One of the more experienced pilots in our club scared himself climbing
out
of a touch and go during which he didn't notice that the flaps had frozen
at
20 degrees on our 172.

I've been investigating the flap system on Cessna's and am impressed how
easily a bit of fluff or corrosion in just one switch can let the flaps
go
down but then fail to retract.

This leaves me convinced that CFI's and all of us should be drilling in
the
glance over the shoulder to verify retraction on all touch and goes and
go
arounds. Practicing climb outs from minimum airspeed with all flap
settings
is a very neglected part of airwork and probably as important to safety
as
doing stalls.

Well, exactly what would you do about it if you're flying a missed
approach or
a touch and go and found your flaps had not retracted?

For what it's worth, I somehow don't find climbing out with flaps extended
as
scary a prospect as having a pilot not recognize when the aircraft is
close to
stall.

AJW wrote:

Well, exactly what would you do about it if you're flying a missed approach or
a touch and go and found your flaps had not retracted?

I would increase my angle of attack and use the correct airspeed for the flap setting
to get the best rate of climb that I could under the circumstances. If you use the
appropriate departure airspeed for 0 degrees of flaps when you actually have 20
degrees down, the climb rate (or lack thereof) could be a problem. The longer it
takes you to realize it, the closer the trees get.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

Most of the problems that I have had on Cessna 172s have been with flaps. I
agree that pilots should verify flaps up on touch and goes.

Cessna used to have manual flaps. Why did they ever go to this flakey
electrical system in the first place?

In article ,
"C J Campbell" wrote:

Most of the problems that I have had on Cessna 172s have been with flaps. I
agree that pilots should verify flaps up on touch and goes.

Cessna used to have manual flaps. Why did they ever go to this flakey
electrical system in the first place?

I did my initial training in Cessnas, and "verify flaps retracting" was
drummed into me as part of the touch-and-go procedure.

Now I fly mostly Pipers. I really like the manual flaps instead of
Cessna's electric ones, and curse the electric trim Piper uses instead
of Cessna's manual trim system.

Simple stuff just works better.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
Most of the problems that I have had on Cessna 172s have been with
flaps. I
agree that pilots should verify flaps up on touch and goes.

Cessna used to have manual flaps. Why did they ever go to this flakey
electrical system in the first place?

The old "Johnson bar" could be fun. You had to depress the button in
front by lifting the pressure gently off the bar. Every now and then if
you weren't careful, the damn thing could slip out of your fingers and
slam down, retracting the flaps in one hell of a hurry.
You could always tell the CFI's who had had this happen to them when a
student let the bar go on a low altitude go around. They would be the
ones with the snow white hair!!! :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 07:56:53 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

Most of the problems that I have had on Cessna 172s have been with flaps. I
agree that pilots should verify flaps up on touch and goes.

Cessna used to have manual flaps. Why did they ever go to this flakey
electrical system in the first place?

Recently, I've been flying a 1956 C172 and I like the manual flaps. I
don't miss the convenience of electric flaps at all. Plus, if the
feeble old electic system craps out I still have flap. I know you can
land without them, but my home base is a relatively short runway with
trees on each end.
Rich Russell

What about the little metal bar that moves up and down on the left side of
the flaps switch? When the flaps fail to retract, does the metal bar still
go all the way back up? Also, normally you can hear the motor running every
time the flaps are moving up or down. When the flaps get stuck, is there
any audible indication?

Thanks,
- Ray

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
One of the more experienced pilots in our club scared himself climbing out
of a touch and go during which he didn't notice that the flaps had frozen
at
20 degrees on our 172.

I've been investigating the flap system on Cessna's and am impressed how
easily a bit of fluff or corrosion in just one switch can let the flaps go
down but then fail to retract.

This leaves me convinced that CFI's and all of us should be drilling in
the
glance over the shoulder to verify retraction on all touch and goes and go
arounds. Practicing climb outs from minimum airspeed with all flap
settings
is a very neglected part of airwork and probably as important to safety as
doing stalls.

--

Roger Long

Yes, the little metal bar moves. I'm going to put painting it red on my
list. Still, looking at a big thing out side the plane as opposed to a
little thing down on the panel seems safer to me.

If you can train yourself to hear the noise, that's probably as good as
taking a look. It's easy to miss the absence of noise though as my friend
found out.

--

Roger Long



"Ray" wrote in message
...
What about the little metal bar that moves up and down on the left side of
the flaps switch? When the flaps fail to retract, does the metal bar
still
go all the way back up? Also, normally you can hear the motor running
every
time the flaps are moving up or down. When the flaps get stuck, is there
any audible indication?

Thanks,
- Ray

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
One of the more experienced pilots in our club scared himself climbing
out
of a touch and go during which he didn't notice that the flaps had
frozen
at
20 degrees on our 172.

I've been investigating the flap system on Cessna's and am impressed how
easily a bit of fluff or corrosion in just one switch can let the flaps
go
down but then fail to retract.

This leaves me convinced that CFI's and all of us should be drilling in
the
glance over the shoulder to verify retraction on all touch and goes and
go
arounds. Practicing climb outs from minimum airspeed with all flap
settings
is a very neglected part of airwork and probably as important to safety
as
doing stalls.

--

Roger Long