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#21
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Replacing aging club Grobs...best options?
On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 8:13:48 AM UTC-4, Christoph Barniske wrote:
The Twin 1 is available with a retractable gear or as a trainer version (fixed gear, no water ballast). The RG version suffers from too large geardoors which are torn off easily in outlandings. Although the gear is fixed, the trainer version also has the box for retracting the gear in the fuselage.. The Twin 1 has slightly better performance than the II (which is already better than the ASK21) and a higher payload. But it's heavy on the controls and the backseat is quite uncomfortable. There's also a noteable lack of control harmony compared to other glass gliders. These are the main reason for their low price. We sold it after a few years and nobody really missed it. In my view, if you get a Twin II with reasonable payload, it's a much better choice. As for the single-seat Grob gliders, there's also a technical note on applying turbulator tapes on Twin 1 and 2 wings. It improves handling in thermals, but doesn't help with the lack of harmony and stiff controls on the Twin 1. The technical note actually allows for turbulator tape in front of all flight control surfaces. This is separate from the Aero Kurier article which described under wing turbulator tape to anchor laminar separation bubbles and improve performance. Adding Z-Tape to the vertical fin just in front of the rudder actually makes a very noticeable difference in rudder effectiveness on a Twin 1. This in turn makes the controls much more harmonized and in turn more pleasing to fly. People in the USA that have a Twin II with no damage history and high payload know what they have and are not selling. I would expect that if a unicorn like that appeared on the USA market, the asking price would be in the $50K-$60K range. Most clubs that used to operate L-13 Blaniks before the wing spar A.D. just don't have that kind of cash available. Mike Opitz RO |
#22
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Replacing aging club Grobs...best options?
'AS' Yep. Thanks. I was just looking at that. Even in Europe, it seems there is precious little available in glass trainers for under $40k, let alone under $25k. Maybe if we just wait long enough, enough glider pilots will die off or age out, and enough clubs will fold up, and the popularity of soaring will drop enough, that those glass trainers will be so hard to get rid of that the prices will drop (assuming they are not crashed or damaged during this wait). I'm not holding my breath though. As for glass trainers under $40k, Schiebe/Centrair SF-34's often come up for sale on the Segelflug.de site for well under $40k. The few that were built by Schiebe were designated the SF-34 Delphin. The much more numerous Centrair built SF-34 is designated the SF-34 Alliance. Hardly anyone in the U.S.. seems to know about them. Only 2 were imported to the U.S. and my club now has both of them, so if you want one, you will have to import it. It's a good looking glider with a reasonably large cockpit and a 485 lb payload, 16.5 meter span. Easy to fly. Thermals well and runs about like the ASK-21. Not quite as rugged as the ASK-21, but is approved for basic aerobatics. The landing gear does not handle heavy side loads well. Original finish on the A model was dull and sort of greyish white. Definitely not up to standards of Grobs and ASK's. Most have been refinished to a better qualityu at this point. The B models had some improvements in that respect and had some other improvements such as a better wheel/brake design. I have no idea about parts availability or support. I think Schiebe has gone out of the aircraft manufacturing business, but some version of Schiebe seems to still exist providing service to the huge number of motorgliders that Schiebe produced. Schiebe produced a few SF-34's in the early 2000's, so I would think they could provide parts still. We have had ours for over 15 years and have never had to buy any parts. Most of the parts that wear, such as in the control linkages appear to be common off-the-shelf aircraft components or are of standard aircraft construction so could be pretty easily reproduced. Tost still lists an improved drum brake wheel and a disc brake wheel for the SF-34. |
#23
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Replacing aging club Grobs...best options?
On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 12:30:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
The DG-1000 is .... Unfortunately the Club fixed gear version has been rumored not to be amenable to held off landings. I had no trouble doing a perfect two-point fully held-off landing. Front seat pilot (me) was 160 + chute. Back seat 180 + chute. I did however slowly open the spoilers as I slowly pulled back on the stick, so maybe that is cheating? |
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