A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Military Aviation
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Now the neocons are inventng forgeries



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 11th 04, 12:58 PM
ArtKramr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Now the neocons are inventng forgeries

What a disgusting bunch of liares those Neocons are.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

  #2  
Old September 11th 04, 01:45 PM
Brett
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"ArtKramr" wants to know.


  #3  
Old September 11th 04, 02:54 PM
Raoul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , ArtKramr
wrote:

What a disgusting bunch of liares those Neocons are.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Now we have Artie chiming in...

And, ya know what, Artie, based on the logic that you have shown
elsewhere lately, neither one of these guys should be President of the
United States because the military experience of both men does not
include flights over Europe as a bombadier in a B-26 so they both are
obviously spineless, coward, wannabes.

What I find so off-****ing in this whole thing is that my worse dream
seems to be coming true...

You see, I'm a Kerry supporter. A few months ago, it seemed to me that
the race was Kerry's to win- unless he screwed up. It now appears to me
that he has. Damn.

Here's my thoughts on the military situation on these two guys. Take it
or leave it and **** ya if ya can't take a joke. John Kerry won some
medals. Seems to me that he earned them. But, in and of itself, medals
don't mean a heck of a lot except that a man did something exceptional
on a particular day. He may or may not be of overall greater
character. The awards could be a symbol of a man's inner gallantry and
character. I choose to view it this way. However, they could mean that
a criminal, amoral ******* sucked it up and did something right on a
particular day.

About medals in general, I have to differ to my friend, Ray. He
started as a groundpounder back in Korea as a 19 year old kid and,
using his GI Bill, became a teacher but eventually reentered the
Reserves because he just plain liked the Army.and being a soldier. He
eventually was the 'oldest drill sergeant in the Army' at age 56 and
then retired out of the Army as a first sergeant at age 62. He was in
at the beginning of Desert Storm and, as one after another of his drill
sergeants was called active, he prepared himself to go even though he
was an old man who had clearly done his duty in the past. A soldier
serves and he was getting ready. He cried when he retired. Not that he
was happy but that he was sad that he could no longer be a soldier.

Not sure if Ray won any medals other than the basics because he never
talked about them and I never saw any on his memento boards he has up
in his house. Seems as well as combat, he really shined at dealing with
all the government paper that the Army generates. As a paper pushin'
soldier, he said he pushed through lots of awards that may or may not
have been earned. He said that the basic rule on awards is that the
'worse the war is going, the more medals are awarded". He gave me some
figures which I don't have to share right now but it was amazing to me
the number of medals given out in Vietnam as opposed to Korea and WWII.

Kerry's medals may or may not mean ****. I think that they do but you
are quite welcome to disagree with me. Seems that the strategy to focus
on military experience has backfired badly on his campaign. This
cockamamy thing on 60 Minutes trying to paint the drunken fratboy of a
man that was W as a young man as some sort of AWOL Daddy's boy. is
ludacrous. If you are going to make charges, at least make sure that
they are relly true and substantiated. Geez, he probably was and many
others used influence or class or raw brains to get out of active
service. Do the names Dan "Mr. Potatoe Head" Quayle and Bill "I got
the brains to get into Oxford" Clinton ring a bell? And, to think, the
American people elected Clinton to be Commander-in-Chief of the Armed
Forces- twice! If you don't call that military service, you don't
believe in the fundamental idea of a civilian controlled military as
provided by the Constitution.

Which leads me to W. I didn't vote for him but it seems by our American
system, very few more people voted for him as for my man Gore and W
became President. By definition, W is commander of the military and, as
military service goes, that's enough for me. Personally, I am against
him for his decisions now as commander in chief and not as a guy who
may or may not have ditched some drills 30 years ago. (I guess when
your old man is a Senator, head of the CIA and rich as all hell, you
kinda get a feeling of entitlement to a few Mulligans, much like Bubba
used to do frequently on the golf course.)

I hope I've laid out the background of my off-****edness. I think the
"Swift Boat Veterans" stuff was and is a diversion to change the
subject from W's performance as President and Commander in Chief. This
new stuff about W's service should never have been brought up because I
don't know if it makes any difference. And the fact that there is a
really good chance that the documents were complete bull**** makes it
even worse. I'm not happy with Kerry but I sure don't like the
direction W has us going.

Remember when I said it was my opinion the the race was Kerry's to
lose? I'm afraid he has just screwed the pooch.

ObAviation: I'm riding my motorbike up Whidbey Island today and hope I
see some cool Navy stuff flying overhead as I go by the Naval Air
Station.

raoul
  #4  
Old September 11th 04, 03:09 PM
Kevin Brooks
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
What a disgusting bunch of liares those Neocons are.


Evidence? Lots of pretty solid evidence supporting the forgery claims (not
just the typeface, but now the fact that one of the addressees was not even
in the service at the time the supposed memo was written to him) has been
made known, but you curiously have nothing beyond "Dan Rather says it was
so"? One thing is for certain, though--you are indeed an authority on the
subject of "lying", given your propensity to do it yourself so much.

Brooks



Arthur Kramer



  #5  
Old September 11th 04, 04:54 PM
Jack G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Art -

Do you have any direct experience analyzing documents? Have you looked at
the documents in question? Did you have a typewriter in your B-26? If not,
you are not qualified and have no right to comment on the authenticity of
the documents in question. Take it somewhere else, wannabe!

Jack G.



"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
What a disgusting bunch of liares those Neocons are.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer



  #8  
Old September 12th 04, 12:14 AM
ArtKramr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Subject: Now the neocons are inventng forgeries
From: Ian MacLure
Date: 9/11/2004 2:31 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote in news:20040911075858.15758.00000385@mb-
m13.aol.com:

What a disgusting bunch of liares those Neocons are.


I suppose I'd be wasting my time pointing out
this isn't doing your rep any good. Particularly
in light of the constant stream of revelations
confirming almost beyond discussion ( except for senile
old loons ) that the documents are forgeries by incompetents.

IBM



My "rep" as you put it seems to be a matter of constant concern for you. My rep
is important to me. But only among certain select groups. My rep as far as the
crew I flew with is very important to me as well as Maj. Foote my squadron
(494th) commander and Colonel Wittty my group commander. And also important are
my students at the New School for Social Research in New York where I taught
for many years, and the readers of my articles in Modern Photography magazine
were also important to me. Also my website and its readers which have just
reached 60,000 hits and is used as a study text in the history department at
UNLV. Note that you are not on the list. But I assure you that I mean no
offense in leaving you off the list. It's nothing personal.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

  #9  
Old September 12th 04, 12:15 AM
Steven P. McNicoll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ian MacLure" wrote in message
...

I suppose I'd be wasting my time pointing out
this isn't doing your rep any good.


Nor is it doing his rep any harm.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gen. Zinni: Neocons Hijacked US Foreign Policy for Israel MORRIS434 Military Aviation 3 May 27th 04 12:07 AM
(NEOCONS) GOING BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM MORRIS434 Military Aviation 0 April 23rd 04 02:29 PM
No US soldier should have 2 die for Israel 4 oil Ewe n0 who Military Aviation 1 April 9th 04 11:25 PM
No End to War Grantland Military Aviation 0 March 26th 04 05:20 AM
De Borchgrave: WMD, Gulf of Tonkin, and Neocons MORRIS434 Military Aviation 0 February 12th 04 09:41 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.