Dead DG

There is no magic here. It is a bit of a crap shoot. Generally you pay
more for new, and you get more, but sometimes rebuilt outlasts new.
Vacuum powered instruments are notoriously unpridictable so far as how
long they last. If you are on a budget, rebuild. If the account is fat,
buy new. If you can't decide, flip a coin. It's not going to
matter.....much. Well, it might, but there's no way of telling ahead of
time.... Sorry I can't be more specific....

When you were learning to fly, were you happy with the dg's? They were
probably always repaired. If you fix it though, tell them to overhaul it.

John

mbremer216 wrote:
Well, it looks like my directional gyro just went belly up. When I went for
a ride today, the setting knob was very sticky, and then suddenly not sticky
at all as it now rotates freely and doesn't feel like it is engaging
anything. The gyro card does not rotate with the knob.

I have a Cherokee with a heading tracking Autocontrol III autopilot.

What are opinions regarding having it rebuilt as opposed to replaced?

Thanks

Mike

On 02/21/06 08:18, Jim Burns wrote:
EdoAire Autopilot DG
Overhauled Aug. 2004
Tits up Dec. 2005 (out of warranty)
IRANed Dec. 2005
Operated properly for 7 hours then started spinning, wouldn't erect
IRANed Dec. 2005 2nd time
No problems found
Re installed, worked fine on the ground, failed during initial
takeoff
Replaced with overhauled unit after talking to Century Instruments

For the price of what we paid for removals, reinstalls, and IRAN's, THEN for
an overhauled unit, we could have bought a new unit and had it installed
then sold our core to a rebuilder.

Lesson learned.

First of all, I'm very sorry for your bad experience. It sounds like a
nightmare.

However, what lesson? That 'overhauled' will always cost you more in the
long run? I don't see how that results in a lesson being learned, unless
of course, I'm missing something (which is probably the case... ;-) )

It seems to me you had an atypical experience. The same could happen with
a new component, couldn't it? Even if it's not as likely with new, the
chance in either case of serious problems like this must still be pretty low.

Might some argue that the reconditioned equipment is a safer bet, because
the non-wearing parts have already been tested by in-service use, etc.?


Jim

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

After it was inspected and repaired, then reinstalled I should have junked
it or went the rebuilt route (which we ulimately did) rather than pulling it
for another inspection/repair.

I wasn't satisfied that the DG only lasted 16 months after a overhaul before
it's problems started. That should have been my first clue. Then I had it
inspected and informed that it was "just out of balance" and "everything
else looked good". I should have only reinstalled it after convincing
myself that if anything happens, the unit is history. Well, "anything"
happened and instead of junking it, we stuck more $$ into it, only to be
told that "everything looks good, doesn't tumble on our vibration table, I'd
stick it back in".

Round 1: $400
Round 2: $300
Round 3: Overhauled Exchange $663

Jim






"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 02/21/06 08:18, Jim Burns wrote:
EdoAire Autopilot DG
Overhauled Aug. 2004
Tits up Dec. 2005 (out of warranty)
IRANed Dec. 2005
Operated properly for 7 hours then started spinning, wouldn't erect
IRANed Dec. 2005 2nd time
No problems found
Re installed, worked fine on the ground, failed during initial
takeoff
Replaced with overhauled unit after talking to Century Instruments

For the price of what we paid for removals, reinstalls, and IRAN's, THEN
for
an overhauled unit, we could have bought a new unit and had it installed
then sold our core to a rebuilder.

Lesson learned.

First of all, I'm very sorry for your bad experience. It sounds like a
nightmare.

However, what lesson? That 'overhauled' will always cost you more in the
long run? I don't see how that results in a lesson being learned, unless
of course, I'm missing something (which is probably the case... ;-) )

It seems to me you had an atypical experience. The same could happen with
a new component, couldn't it? Even if it's not as likely with new, the
chance in either case of serious problems like this must still be pretty
low.

Might some argue that the reconditioned equipment is a safer bet, because
the non-wearing parts have already been tested by in-service use, etc.?


Jim

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:33:53 -0600, mbremer216 wrote:

Well, it looks like my directional gyro just went belly up. When I went for
a ride today, the setting knob was very sticky, and then suddenly not sticky
at all as it now rotates freely and doesn't feel like it is engaging
anything. The gyro card does not rotate with the knob.

Mike,

I went new on my DG in my Sundowner and have not looked back.....Same
symptoms you described....

Allen

Denny,
You're fighting a losing battle my friend. I was also taught the
critical basic instruments as you've pointed out, however a great many
of today's pilots place tremendous faith in their electronics. Dead
reckoning seems to be a lot art, which may be a good thing considering
the airspace we live in today.

I'm with you on the criticality of the compass, and I also seem
to remember that it used to be part of the minimum equipment list but
the DG wasn't. That used to be a question asked on the CFII oral years
ago.

But times have changed so we have to understand the new
environments.

-----Original Message-----
From: Denny ]
Posted At: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:34 PM
Posted To: rec.aviation.owning
Conversation: Dead DG
Subject: Dead DG

Well, let me take you into IMC and fail everything but your altimeter,
speedo, T&B and compass and I'll have you kissing that compass when
you
are back down...
A DG is nice but it's nothing that will kill you if it goes bad in
hard
IMC...




denny

I too have had bad luck with overhauls. I made several attempts to
get an overhauled vaccumm AI to work right from a local shop and
finally replaced it with a new unit. The old King electric powered
remote DG gyro and King HSI in my Aztec made two trips to the
overhaul shop before it worked and the flags in the HSI still didn't
work after the 2nd trip. The company made it good under warranty
but the removal, shipping, and re-installed costs add up.

If it is a simple AI or DG that you can buy a new replacement for,
buy a new one and sell the core. If it is some old, odd ball unit that
requires a bunch of labor to replace and/or the replacement option
is expensive (a newer version of the King KCS55A or the Sandel HSI
is many thousands of dollars) our HSI, then attempting an overhaul may
be worth a try, but may or may not work out.

Beyond gyro overhauls, a simple thing like resealing a compass is a
trying experience. I thought a wiskey compass would be a simple thing
to install a seal kit in. Boy was I wrong. After 3 attempts I finally
gave up and went to a local instrument shop. Their advice was, "Buy
a new unit, we can never get the resealed units to hold up. We just ship
the cores back to the factory for repair." I didn't feel so inept after
they
told me that.

Ronnie


"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
After it was inspected and repaired, then reinstalled I should have junked
it or went the rebuilt route (which we ulimately did) rather than pulling
it
for another inspection/repair.

I wasn't satisfied that the DG only lasted 16 months after a overhaul
before
it's problems started. That should have been my first clue. Then I had it
inspected and informed that it was "just out of balance" and "everything
else looked good". I should have only reinstalled it after convincing
myself that if anything happens, the unit is history. Well, "anything"
happened and instead of junking it, we stuck more $$ into it, only to be
told that "everything looks good, doesn't tumble on our vibration table,
I'd
stick it back in".

Round 1: $400
Round 2: $300
Round 3: Overhauled Exchange $663

Jim






"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 02/21/06 08:18, Jim Burns wrote:
EdoAire Autopilot DG
Overhauled Aug. 2004
Tits up Dec. 2005 (out of warranty)
IRANed Dec. 2005
Operated properly for 7 hours then started spinning, wouldn't erect
IRANed Dec. 2005 2nd time
No problems found
Re installed, worked fine on the ground, failed during initial
takeoff
Replaced with overhauled unit after talking to Century Instruments

For the price of what we paid for removals, reinstalls, and IRAN's,
THEN
for
an overhauled unit, we could have bought a new unit and had it
installed
then sold our core to a rebuilder.

Lesson learned.

First of all, I'm very sorry for your bad experience. It sounds like a
nightmare.

However, what lesson? That 'overhauled' will always cost you more in the
long run? I don't see how that results in a lesson being learned, unless
of course, I'm missing something (which is probably the case... ;-) )

It seems to me you had an atypical experience. The same could happen with
a new component, couldn't it? Even if it's not as likely with new, the
chance in either case of serious problems like this must still be pretty
low.

Might some argue that the reconditioned equipment is a safer bet, because
the non-wearing parts have already been tested by in-service use, etc.?


Jim

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

You're fighting a losing battle my friend.
************************************************

Yah, I'm a bit slow but I'm catching on....

denny

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 11:41:55 -0700, Newps wrote:

Denny wrote:

Well, let me take you into IMC and fail everything but your altimeter,
speedo, T&B and compass and I'll have you kissing that compass when you
are back down...
A DG is nice but it's nothing that will kill you if it goes bad in hard
IMC...

Who will ever look at the compass? The GPS runs on batteries. Just fly
a ground track instead of a heading.

and if you travel w/o a GPS or even better yet, your trusty 296 lithium
battery goes TU? I'd be wanting that DG real quick!

Allen

Ummm.. make sure the Knob is not loose and turning freely. We had the
same symptoms, loose knob slipped "in" on the shaft hard against the
panel, so could not push the shaft in to uncage the gyro, so it coud
not be "set". Slid knob back out to proper position on shaft, toghten
set screw, fixed..

Maybe?

Dave


On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:33:53 -0600, "mbremer216"
wrote:

Well, it looks like my directional gyro just went belly up. When I went for
a ride today, the setting knob was very sticky, and then suddenly not sticky
at all as it now rotates freely and doesn't feel like it is engaging
anything. The gyro card does not rotate with the knob.

I have a Cherokee with a heading tracking Autocontrol III autopilot.

What are opinions regarding having it rebuilt as opposed to replaced?

Thanks

Mike