A question for the future

Over a period of time aviation seems to make changes due to technical advances.
As such in the past certain "basics" of aviation that were once written in
stone have gone by the wayside.

So here is one for ya. Last week I started a student on the ground school
basics of cross country planing. Draw the line on the sectional from airport to
airport. Discuss all the wind, magnetic and other variables etc. After about 20
minutes into the discussion the students 13 year old daughter who was intently
watching asked the question. "Why do all that when I can do the same thing in
30 seconds on the handheld GPS and enroute it will take care of the wind
correction"

Got me to thinking. So question is, what is the opinion of the troops as to
when the system will change and as part of the written/PTS for any rating there
will no longer be the requirment to draw the line and figure out all the other
stuff for the X-C portion of the test. Just put in airports/waypoints and go
for it.

Five years? Ten years? Or will it stick around forever?

Walt
Forty+ years as a CFI and still drawing lines on sectionals.

B25flyer wrote:
"Why do all that when I can do the same thing in
30 seconds on the handheld GPS and enroute it will take care of the
wind
correction"

Troll.

Walt
Forty+ years as a CFI and still drawing lines on sectionals.
Yeah, right.

"B25flyer" wrote in message
...
Got me to thinking. So question is, what is the opinion of the troops as
to
when the system will change and as part of the written/PTS for any rating
there
will no longer be the requirment to draw the line and figure out all the
other
stuff for the X-C portion of the test. Just put in airports/waypoints and
go
for it.

Five years? Ten years? Or will it stick around forever?

Good question. Personally, I don't think that all planes will ever be GPS
equipped just as all the current flying planes don't have nav radios,
transponders or even electrical systems.

My aircraft doesn't have a transponder or a nav radio, haven't needed them,
yet. I do use a GPS for some of the navigation but mostly rely on dead
reckoning.

Keep drawing those lines on the sectionals and teaching it that way. GPS's
can go Tango Uniform and then where are you...

My guess is that it will be well on its way of change when the new Cessna
172's and Piper Warriors coming out next year with the glass cockpits become
the standard "used aircraft" on the common market. Let's say, oh 20-30 years
or so. We are starting to see it with the TAA initiative and I suspect it
will gradually creep into the FAA mindset. We will also see training for
absolete navigational systems fall off the PTS one by one (the next probably
being NDB/ADF).

Marco Leon


"B25flyer" wrote in message
...

Over a period of time aviation seems to make changes due to technical
advances.
As such in the past certain "basics" of aviation that were once written in
stone have gone by the wayside.

So here is one for ya. Last week I started a student on the ground school
basics of cross country planing. Draw the line on the sectional from
airport to
airport. Discuss all the wind, magnetic and other variables etc. After
about 20
minutes into the discussion the students 13 year old daughter who was
intently
watching asked the question. "Why do all that when I can do the same thing
in
30 seconds on the handheld GPS and enroute it will take care of the wind
correction"

Got me to thinking. So question is, what is the opinion of the troops as
to
when the system will change and as part of the written/PTS for any rating
there
will no longer be the requirment to draw the line and figure out all the
other
stuff for the X-C portion of the test. Just put in airports/waypoints and
go
for it.

Five years? Ten years? Or will it stick around forever?

Walt
Forty+ years as a CFI and still drawing lines on sectionals.

"B25flyer" wrote in message
...


Got me to thinking. So question is, what is the opinion of the troops as
to
when the system will change and as part of the written/PTS for any rating
there
will no longer be the requirment to draw the line and figure out all the
other
stuff for the X-C portion of the test.

Where is this requirement to draw a line or use an E6-B in the practical
test standards? It appears to me that the applicant could use FliteStar or
Cirrus or any other computer based flight planner. The applicant is required
to compute headings, fuel flow, etc. Nothing in the standard requires the
use of a whiz wheel or plotter. The FAA does not appear to care if the
applicant uses the E6-B, his Cray supercomputer, or a Ouija board. Now, that
said, I don't think it is necessarily true that using computer based flight
planning is any easier or less time consuming than doing it manually. The
answers had better be right. Anyway, here is the standard:

D. TASK: CROSS-COUNTRY FLIGHT PLANNING (ASEL and ASES)

REFERENCES: 14 CFR part 91; AC 61-23/FAA-H-8083-25, AC 61-84;

Navigation Charts; A/FD; AIM.

Objective. To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to cross-country flight

planning by presenting and explaining a pre-planned VFR crosscountry

flight, as previously assigned by the examiner. On the day of

the practical test, the final flight plan shall be to the first fuel stop,

based on maximum allowable passengers, baggage, and/or cargo

loads using real-time weather.

2. Uses appropriate and current aeronautical charts.

3. Properly identifies airspace, obstructions, and terrain features.

4. Selects easily identifiable en route checkpoints.

5. Selects most favorable altitudes considering weather conditions and

equipment capabilities.

6. Computes headings, flight time, and fuel requirements.

7. Selects appropriate navigation system/facilities and communication

frequencies.

8. Applies pertinent information from NOTAMs, AF/D, and other flight

publications.

9. Completes a navigation log and simulates filing a VFR flight plan.

Recently, B25flyer posted:
(mostly snipped for brevity)
Over a period of time aviation seems to make changes due to technical
advances. As such in the past certain "basics" of aviation that were
once written in stone have gone by the wayside.

[...]

Got me to thinking. So question is, what is the opinion of the troops
as to when the system will change and as part of the written/PTS for
any rating there will no longer be the requirment to draw the line
and figure out all the other stuff for the X-C portion of the test.
Just put in airports/waypoints and go for it.

IMO, this misses the point entirely. There are several important lessons
imbedded in the apparently simple task of X-C planning.

-- The basic idea of planning. Every aspect of the flight has to be taken
into consideration. For the instructor, I'd imagine that it would provide
some good insights into how the student is approaching aviation. Those
that would forego planning and rely on short-cuts can probably benefit
from *more* instruction, not less.

-- Tracking your progress on a chart is still a good practice. The
simplified GPS view is not all you need to know during an X-C. Even if the
GPS has terrain info, it's unlikely to include all of the details on a VFR
chart.

-- Bottom-line safety. Why teach "engine out" routines, when the
likelihood of an engine failure is fairly remote (I'd argue that an
electrical failure that would take out the GPS is more likely)?

I think that it's for good reason that the GPS is considered an addendum,
and not a replacement for other nav aids. There may be some point in the
future when this has changed, but it isn't here yet.

Regards,

Neil

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
ink.net...

I think that it's for good reason that the GPS is considered an addendum,
and not a replacement for other nav aids. There may be some point in the
future when this has changed, but it isn't here yet.

There are no nav aids required for VFR other than a compass. You can use
your handheld GPS if you want and nothing else. GPS alone may not be used
for IFR flight, but WAAS is a stand-alone replacement for all other
navigation aids for IFR.

"B25flyer" wrote in message
...
watching asked the question. "Why do all that when I can do the same thing
in
30 seconds on the handheld GPS and enroute it will take care of the wind
correction"


Answering this question separately:

You can't pick up fuel enroute.

Recently, C J Campbell posted:

"Neil Gould" wrote in message

I think that it's for good reason that the GPS is considered an
addendum, and not a replacement for other nav aids. There may be
some point in the future when this has changed, but it isn't here
yet.

There are no nav aids required for VFR other than a compass.

That is pretty much my point. But, the only way the compass is useful
during VFR X-C is if you can do the rest of the planning. Wind, magnetic
variation, etc. can affect whether you'll get to where you want to go. The
X-C planning skill set is not just busy-work.

Neil

B25flyer wrote:

Got me to thinking. So question is, what is the opinion of the troops as to
when the system will change and as part of the written/PTS for any rating there
will no longer be the requirment to draw the line and figure out all the other
stuff for the X-C portion of the test. Just put in airports/waypoints and go
for it.

Five years? Ten years? Or will it stick around forever?

It'll stick around forever. We no longer teach things like radio ranges, but when the
electrons decide not to go down those wires, it'll be whatever we remember about
pilotage that gets us safely on the ground somewhere close to where we wanted to be.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.