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First glider Nimbus 2 ?



 
 
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  #111  
Old January 16th 21, 04:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nicholas Kennedy
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Posts: 46
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

Piotr
I've read through this thread and I think you should buy that ship, you'll do fine.
Maybe consider looking a partner too, then you can free up some cash to upgrade some instruments and make it nicer.
Fly safe in 2021
Nick
T
Ads
  #112  
Old January 17th 21, 05:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Posts: 504
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On 1/14/21 2:11 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 1/14/2021 11:39 AM:
On 1/14/2021 1:43 PM, John Galloway wrote:
...

Another huge advantage, is they don't have that all-flying tail, which
was quickly designed out of the Nimbus line, for good reason.

The late models DG100G, LS1F and Grob built Std Cirruses have
conventional tailplanes. Earlier variants of those 3, and the ASW 15
have all flying tailplanes.


OK, but what is so bad about the all-flying tail?* I know some models
had a reputation for no "feel" in the pitch control.* Others less so.
Is it the all-flying tail, or some details of its design?* Where the
hinge is placed along the chord of that tail would make a big
difference, no?* And spring trim added to the system would make it
behave better when hands-off?

For example, Dick Johnson was regularly flying a Nimbus 2 IIRC, when
he did the flight test of the original Janus (both with all-flying
tails). *He commented that "The well-balanced, all-movable horizontal
tail (on the Janus) provided good longitudinal stability at all speeds
and was a great improvement over the smaller poorly balanced Nimbus
and Std. Cirrus tails. It did, however, cause the longitudinal control
to be fairly sensitive to control stick position."


My Ka6e and Std Cirrus both had all-flying tails. Based on those gliders
and comments from other pilots in different gliders, I'd say "did cause
the longitudinal control to be fairly sensitive to control stick
position" is what's wrong with all-flying tails, especially at high
speeds. Over 75 knots, I held the Std Cirrus stick in both hands, ditto
for the Ka6e at some slower speed I don't remember. I very much liked
both those gliders, but it was a deep pleasure to leave those gliders
for the H301 - so steady at high speeds.


Having logged 1200 hrs in a Ka6Cr, I must say it never occurred to me to
ever use both hands on the stick at higher speed. Such a sweet flying
glider. Maybe because it had the conventional tail, unlike the E model?

We've really beat this topic to death, but just to summarize, we have a
low-time pilot who think he's discovered some secret loophole that lets
him buy a great open-class ship for dirt cheap, and fly it on 500K tasks
in armchair comfort, with apparently no risk of landing out due to long
wings. He thinks he'll grow into it. To fly 500K you need some speed,
and developing that in an old boat like this would be really tough for a
beginning x/c pilot.

Dick Johnson said the tail is small and poorly balanced, yet some people
still claim this is a suitable glider for a low-time pilot. I know this
is R.A.S., but even so, it's time for some common sense to kick in.
Glider are expensive toys, that's unfortunate. But ignoring reality
doesn't change facts. There's a real good reason the open class ship
he's looking at is offered so cheap.

-Dave
  #113  
Old January 17th 21, 06:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 2,065
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

Piotr,

I always assumed there would be a large number of Std Jantar models available in Poland. Perhaps they are reaching their service life limits? As a one time owner of a share in a Jantar Std 2, I found it to be an honest performer with good cross-country potential and nice thermaling characteristics and a generous cockpit unless perhaps a pilot was wide at the hip. Would one of these be an option, or are they in demand for clubs?

Frank Whiteley
  #114  
Old January 17th 21, 06:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,813
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

kinsell wrote on 1/17/2021 8:54 AM:
On 1/14/21 2:11 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 1/14/2021 11:39 AM:
On 1/14/2021 1:43 PM, John Galloway wrote:
...

Another huge advantage, is they don't have that all-flying tail, which
was quickly designed out of the Nimbus line, for good reason.

The late models DG100G, LS1F and Grob built Std Cirruses have conventional tailplanes.
Earlier variants of those 3, and the ASW 15 have all flying tailplanes.


OK, but what is so bad about the all-flying tail?* I know some models had a reputation for
no "feel" in the pitch control.* Others less so. Is it the all-flying tail, or some details
of its design?* Where the hinge is placed along the chord of that tail would make a big
difference, no?* And spring trim added to the system would make it behave better when
hands-off?

For example, Dick Johnson was regularly flying a Nimbus 2 IIRC, when he did the flight test
of the original Janus (both with all-flying tails). *He commented that "The well-balanced,
all-movable horizontal tail (on the Janus) provided good longitudinal stability at all
speeds and was a great improvement over the smaller poorly balanced Nimbus and Std. Cirrus
tails. It did, however, cause the longitudinal control to be fairly sensitive to control
stick position."


My Ka6e and Std Cirrus both had all-flying tails. Based on those gliders and comments from
other pilots in different gliders, I'd say "did cause the longitudinal control to be fairly
sensitive to control stick position" is what's wrong with all-flying tails, especially at
high speeds. Over 75 knots, I held the Std Cirrus stick in both hands, ditto for the Ka6e at
some slower speed I don't remember. I very much liked both those gliders, but it was a deep
pleasure to leave those gliders for the H301 - so steady at high speeds.


Having logged 1200 hrs in a Ka6Cr, I must say it never occurred to me to ever use both hands on
the stick at higher speed.* Such a sweet flying glider.* Maybe because it had the conventional
tail, unlike the E model?


No "maybe" about it: that's the primary difference between the two Ka6 gliders. The Ka6e was
pure all-flying tail, no auto-trim tab. What made it tolerable is there was rarely a reason to
fly very fast, and it was lovely at lower speeds. Terminal velocity spoilers, too!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

  #115  
Old January 18th 21, 04:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 5
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

The real question is: Should a Nimbus 2 be the first glider to soar on Mars?
  #116  
Old January 18th 21, 04:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,813
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

wrote on 1/17/2021 7:22 PM:
The real question is: Should a Nimbus 2 be the first glider to soar on Mars?

Not possible for a Nimbus 2, but there is a "2" glider that's shown it could soar on Mars:
Perlan 2.

It's going to take one heck of a "trailer and tow vehicle" to get it to Mars!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #117  
Old January 18th 21, 10:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 23
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

This subject has really jumped to the extremes.

A Nimbus2 is not a 15 metre ship ,you don't fly it like them , you keep to the Nimbus2 strengths.
The 15m ships have a much more defined sawtooth pattern of climb and run.The stronger the conditions the better they are.
The Nimbii? I've flown against tended to stay out of phase and come in the 15m ship thermals 3-4th thermal along halfway up ,
out climb them and leave first.
Nimbus 2 as soon as thermals got over 3 knots average 40 litres each side is required and upwards from there
Fully Tanked up they are a weapon ,not my quote, not done it.Not strong enough on average here for that.

The point to this is it is just another aircraft ,it has its quirks but if you read the all the posts
it is not just a 70 hour glider pilot but a pilot with a PPL with a similar number of power hours.
Large airfield ,flatland flying , big paddocks , hanger to ease ground handling all the advantages to make it easier.
XCSoar in the cockpit would keep you in final glide range.


The comment about the reason for cheap price is a misdirection because if glider pilot population wasn't shrinking or retiring from flying
then their prices would be comparable to how they used to be because of demand.
There a more gliders for sale in my country than I have ever seen before now coming up 50 years,because pilot numbers are dropping.
This is a worldwide effect, little demand lower prices, the market always rules.

Gary










On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 5:54:58 AM UTC+13, kinsell wrote:
On 1/14/21 2:11 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 1/14/2021 11:39 AM:
On 1/14/2021 1:43 PM, John Galloway wrote:
...

Another huge advantage, is they don't have that all-flying tail, which
was quickly designed out of the Nimbus line, for good reason.

The late models DG100G, LS1F and Grob built Std Cirruses have
conventional tailplanes. Earlier variants of those 3, and the ASW 15
have all flying tailplanes.


OK, but what is so bad about the all-flying tail? I know some models
had a reputation for no "feel" in the pitch control. Others less so.
Is it the all-flying tail, or some details of its design? Where the
hinge is placed along the chord of that tail would make a big
difference, no? And spring trim added to the system would make it
behave better when hands-off?

For example, Dick Johnson was regularly flying a Nimbus 2 IIRC, when
he did the flight test of the original Janus (both with all-flying
tails). He commented that "The well-balanced, all-movable horizontal
tail (on the Janus) provided good longitudinal stability at all speeds
and was a great improvement over the smaller poorly balanced Nimbus
and Std. Cirrus tails. It did, however, cause the longitudinal control
to be fairly sensitive to control stick position."


My Ka6e and Std Cirrus both had all-flying tails. Based on those gliders
and comments from other pilots in different gliders, I'd say "did cause
the longitudinal control to be fairly sensitive to control stick
position" is what's wrong with all-flying tails, especially at high
speeds. Over 75 knots, I held the Std Cirrus stick in both hands, ditto
for the Ka6e at some slower speed I don't remember. I very much liked
both those gliders, but it was a deep pleasure to leave those gliders
for the H301 - so steady at high speeds.

Having logged 1200 hrs in a Ka6Cr, I must say it never occurred to me to
ever use both hands on the stick at higher speed. Such a sweet flying
glider. Maybe because it had the conventional tail, unlike the E model?

We've really beat this topic to death, but just to summarize, we have a
low-time pilot who think he's discovered some secret loophole that lets
him buy a great open-class ship for dirt cheap, and fly it on 500K tasks
in armchair comfort, with apparently no risk of landing out due to long
wings. He thinks he'll grow into it. To fly 500K you need some speed,
and developing that in an old boat like this would be really tough for a
beginning x/c pilot.

Dick Johnson said the tail is small and poorly balanced, yet some people
still claim this is a suitable glider for a low-time pilot. I know this
is R.A.S., but even so, it's time for some common sense to kick in.
Glider are expensive toys, that's unfortunate. But ignoring reality
doesn't change facts. There's a real good reason the open class ship
he's looking at is offered so cheap.

-Dave

  #119  
Old January 24th 21, 12:14 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,350
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 5:12:26 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
On Monday, 18 January 2021 at 11:39:03 UTC+2, wrote:


The comment about the reason for cheap price is a misdirection because if glider pilot population wasn't shrinking or retiring from flying
then their prices would be comparable to how they used to be because of demand.
There a more gliders for sale in my country than I have ever seen before now coming up 50 years,because pilot numbers are dropping.
This is a worldwide effect, little demand lower prices, the market always rules.

Gary

There is very little for sale in Europe right now, and prices are not low.. Possibly due covid I guess.


Things are heating up - after over 2 years on the market, my ASH26e got 2 legitimate offers within 24 hours (where were they 2 years ago?). Part of the issue is that piece of vaporware called the GP15; another factor is a steady increase in the Euro over the last year, which makes buying used in dollars more attractive. COVID also may be impacting deliveries from Germany with some companies. I have heard that deliveries from Shemp-Hirth are out to 3 years.

Tom
 




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