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First glider Nimbus 2 ?



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 15th 15, 09:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
J. Nieuwenhuize
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Posts: 83
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

How does the N2A (flying stab) handle winch launches and cable breaks during winching? Is the tail stalling an old wives tail or a real issue?
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  #22  
Old March 15th 15, 12:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Galloway[_1_]
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Posts: 215
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

At 21:28 14 March 2015, Skypilot wrote:

Hi Jim, yep she is still here, I think it's for sale at the moment
There are some details here.

http://www.hart.wattle.id.au/alice/articles.html

To be honest I belive if you can fly a cirrus, asw15. Astir you can fl
a N2. Yes it's big but the what height and learning time is for. Are

w
really heading for a generation of pilots who don't want to fly stuf
based on old stories and poor recollection of history. When Dick

wrot
that article there was the asw17 and N2 they were two years old

and wa
ahead of anything else. I wonder what he would think of the

Dianna o
Duckhawk.

I any case my N2 to fly is available if you want to pay the $200

Exces
insurance fee, It's at Kingaroy, arguably on of the fastest clubs i
the world with no real wave and all done on thermals, hire charges

fo
my glider are in Australian mates rates currency. I have a spare

room i
Brisbane and can organise transport. The CFI is very friendly (me

).


You don't have to wonder what Dick Johnson would have thought
about the Diana - you can read what he actually thought about the
Diana 1:

http://www.deturbulator.org/johnson-fte-diana1.pdf



  #23  
Old March 15th 15, 05:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ian[_2_]
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Posts: 89
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On 13/03/2015 05:11, Surge wrote:

A Nimbus 2 is on the market which I'm interested in as my first glider and I'd like some feedback from those who've owned or flown one.


I see lots of opinions here. I will add my own. I owned one and flew
several hundred hours in her and logged some memorable cross country
flights including an FAI 1000km diploma, back in the days when fewer
people had done that, than had flown in space.

I do realize that a flapped, long winged glider is not the best choice for a low time pilot which is why I will keep the glider in a hangar while I first build up some experience on Grob G102's. My motivation for purchase is because I think the glider matches my checklist for the type of flying I've always wished to do and also because of the opportunity presented which may not come around again. Due to the fact that gliders take ages to sell where I live (slow market), I'd rather purchase something I want to fly for the next 20 years than purchase an intermediate "first glider" that I battle to sell later. There is enough G102 stock available to hire in the transition phase.


The thing to remember is that this glider came off the drawing board
with the objective of beating the best open class ships existing at the
time. Suitability for a low time pilot was never a consideration.

That said, I think with 50 hours P1 in a Grob single seater, including
at least "sliver C" level cross country flying, and a few outlandings
and then some good conversion time in a glass 2 seater (Janus would be
ideal) a suitably talented pilot should manage the conversion. But don't
rush it!

1. Stall/spin characteristics. How much warning does it give before stalling and does it have any tendency to suddenly drop a wing and spin


Stalling is docile with little tendency to spin. But if you abuse it, it
can bight. The worst I had was pulling up into a thermal, fully
ballasted, allowing the speed at the top of the zoom to get a bit slow,
using aggressive rudder and aileron to get her into the turn and then
neglecting to set positive flaps before the wings loaded up at the top
of the zoom - it dropped a wing straight into a spin. But everything
except to the point of "failing to set positive flaps in time", is
"normal operation" when racing this glider.

2. Pitch sensitivity. The glider has an all flying tail


VERY sensitive. Especially when compared with the very heavy, sluggish
response to aileron and rudder. This takes getting used to. I got
blisters on my feet from kicking the rudders after a few days of
competitive flying.

But to add to the all flying tail is the S-Bend shaped control stick. If
you hold the stick tight and knock down your wrist with your other hand
you will note that as your hand goes down you apply up elevator. This is
because the grip is not directly above the hinge point of the stick.
This is what happens when you hit a bump at high speed. The resulting G
force causes your hand to go down further causing more up elevator. This
can get ugly very quickly if you do not take precautions.

The advise I was given when I converted was don't fly over 170km/h until
you are used to the elevator. Then do not attempt to fly a low flypast
until have many hours and a lot of confidence with the ship. Finally if
you do fly over 200km/h, hold the stick below the S-bend, in front of
the brake cable. You just need to get your thumb in front of the cable
and gently push. I used both hands, two thumbs, with my hands resting on
my thighs for better control.

3. Approach control. How effective are the airbrakes?Are outlandings a challenge with the tail chute?


The airbrakes are modest. That is why it came out of the factory with a
tail chute. 99% of the time the airbrakes are good enough. The tail
chute was a bit controversial. On the one hand if you are committed to
an approach with tail chute, and it fails to open, you are in big
trouble. On the other if the chute deploys unintentionally then you are
likely to be on the ground before you realize what has happened.

During outlandings, I planned circuit and approach without relying on
the tail chute. Thus neutralising the threat of it not working when you
need it most. Then I used it after round out - to reduce the ground
roll, hence probability of hitting a rock, during outlandings in
ploughed fields. If you are flying a ship with a tail chute, it is worth
adding it to your mental emergency checklist, if you find you are in
prolonged, unexplained, heavy sink, or flying behind a tug that descends
instead of climbs.

- Pitch is sensitive which evidently makes tugging a bit trickier.


It also has a CG release. When combined with the all flying tail, it
requires more concentration on tow.

- Long wings and cross winds don't play nicely together on takeoff.


Not so. Mine had a tail wheel (not a skid) and it handled hot and high
cross wind takeoffs better than many 15m flapped ships.

- Don't go full positive flap on takeoff as the wing may fly before the tail! :-O


Other way round. If you are slow to apply positive flap during the
ground run, the wing might take off before the tail, as the centre of
lift is further forward with negative flap. A handful of positive flap
will quickly rectify the situation, but it is a bit alarming.

- Heavy wings are not an issue as the glider will be hangared and flown conservatively cross country. The odd retrieve shouldn't be a reason to not fly such an awesome old lady.


I kept mine hangered in a T hanger with the wingtips removed. I could
put on the wing tips single handed and get her onto the flight line very
quickly. With the glide performance, I managed to "save" more
outlandings than I logged. Rigging is not actually that bad, as the wing
splits in 4 pieces with about equal weight on the ends of the inner
sections. (The ASW17 is much worse as the split is further outboard and
the inner wings are much heavier). Two full strength adults are required
to rig it. But if you land in a soft ploughed field and have to carry it
out, you will need four adults.

- The glider comes with a decent trailer and accessories before someone brings that up.
- All AD's including tail AD applied.


These ships are approaching 45 years old. They were quite high
maintenance 20 years ago and I can only assume they will require a lot
more maintenance now. Check the condition, the finish, the trailer and
instruments very carefully. Then plan on spending a few weeks each off
season, fixing things that wear and brake.

I had a lot of good flying out of the Nimbus 2. If you are keen and
energetic, you could get a lot of flying out of one too.

Ian

  #24  
Old April 20th 18, 07:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Surge
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Posts: 150
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

A correction to an obvious mistake I made:
"Take off with full negative flaps works well" should read "Take off roll started with with negative flaps works well to keep the wings level".
One obviously needs to move flaps to neutral or +4 once there is enough aileron control. The tail won't lift off the ground with full negative flaps even at around 50km/h (31MPH).

I agree with the comments about tail wind take offs. I have seen and experienced what even a light tailwind of around 5km/h (3MPH) can do with regards to aileron authority and length of takeoff roll even in benign handling gliders such as Twin Astirs. Preferably don't do it unless the runway dictates it such as "one-way-in one-way-out" airfields or steep runways (land uphill take off downhill). It's definitely not on my TODO list in a Nimbus 2.
  #25  
Old June 18th 18, 01:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 23
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

Has anyone actually used the drag chute in the Nimbus 2 , I used to own a Kestrel
with a drag chute and every 2-3 flights would use it, any comments on how effective it was
  #27  
Old December 29th 20, 09:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Piotr Mis
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Posts: 9
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

piÄ…tek, 13 marca 2015 oÂ*04:11:44 UTC+1 Surge napisaÅ‚(a):
A Nimbus 2 is on the market which I'm interested in as my first glider and I'd like some feedback from those who've owned or flown one.

I do realize that a flapped, long winged glider is not the best choice for a low time pilot which is why I will keep the glider in a hangar while I first build up some experience on Grob G102's. My motivation for purchase is because I think the glider matches my checklist for the type of flying I've always wished to do and also because of the opportunity presented which may not come around again. Due to the fact that gliders take ages to sell where I live (slow market), I'd rather purchase something I want to fly for the next 20 years than purchase an intermediate "first glider" that I battle to sell later. There is enough G102 stock available to hire in the transition phase.

My aim in soaring has always been to do medium distance (300-500km), relaxed, cross country flying (armchair ride) so with regards to performance and bang-for-buck it ticks the boxes. I am not interested in competition flying. I'd much rather cruise around at 160km/h with an L/D of ~40:1 than blast around at 200+ km/h trying to shave precious seconds off a task.
I'd like to know more about the glider's vices or problem areas I need to be aware of.

1. Stall/spin characteristics. How much warning does it give before stalling and does it have any tendency to suddenly drop a wing and spin or can it be considered as one of the docile gliders in the stall/spin category? If it constantly wants to kill me (a pilot issue) I'd rather stay with an Astir and just limit my cross country range.

2. Pitch sensitivity. The glider has an all flying tail (not a 2B or 2C model). How pitch sensitive is it once trimmed in cruise? Is it twitchy/unstable and need constant attention or is it fairly stable and one doesn't have to constantly fight to keep attitude constant?

3. Approach control. How effective are the airbrakes? Are outlandings a challenge with the tail chute? Where I fly there are usually plenty of plowed fields at least 300m long and fairly wide (apparently guarded by farmers with shotguns).

Areas I'm aware of:
- Pitch is sensitive which evidently makes tugging a bit trickier.
- Long wings and cross winds don't play nicely together on takeoff.
- Don't go full positive flap on takeoff as the wing may fly before the tail! :-O
- Roll rate is not snappy and the glider is a bit under ruddered which makes entering thermals a bit more challenging than most 15m ships.
- Long wings and mediocre airbrakes (compared to Astirs) make out landings more challenging/dangerous.
- Heavy wings are not an issue as the glider will be hangared and flown conservatively cross country. The odd retrieve shouldn't be a reason to not fly such an awesome old lady.
- The glider comes with a decent trailer and accessories before someone brings that up.
- All AD's including tail AD applied.

Hi Surge
I would be happy to learn how you find your decision of buying that Nimbus 5 years ago from the perspective of those 5 years. Do you still own it? I am curious because I am now facing the same dilemma of low time pilot going for Nimbus 2. If you are somewhere out there I would be glad to hear from you:
  #28  
Old January 1st 21, 09:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Surge
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Posts: 150
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Tuesday, 29 December 2020 at 22:07:01 UTC+2, wrote:
Hi Surge
I would be happy to learn how you find your decision of buying that Nimbus 5 years ago from the perspective of those 5 years. Do you still own it? I am curious because I am now facing the same dilemma of low time pilot going for Nimbus 2. If you are somewhere out there I would be glad to hear from you:


Hi piotrm
I still own the Nimbus 2 although I haven't flown it that much due to life and work getting in the way. I'm still happy with the glider. My cautions would mainly be around ground handling and aerotow (I haven't winched it yet). I provided a general update in 2018 if you missed it. You're welcome to ask me specific questions otherwise.
What I would add is:

Rigging:
Try to keep it hangared if possible - I would not recommend rigging it every weekend unless you're young and fit and have time on your hands. I keep mine hangared with the tips off (GA size T hangar) but even that is a bit of a pain since I'm quite particular regarding cleaning and re-greasing all the pins, sockets and L'Hotellier aileron connections at the tip mounting point every time I fly it. These parts are exposed to dirt every time the wing tips are removed. However it is not a difficult chore and I do everything myself using a DIY one man, wing rigger. Total time to rig, clean, DI and tow to the launch point is about 2 hours. Cleaning and rigging the wing tips takes me about an hour.

Take off:
Make sure you start the take off role with full negative flaps to obtain aileron authority early.
When flying empty be ready for the glider to leap off the deck when shifting gently to +4 degrees flaps. Even with trim almost fully forward and my CofG fore of centre, she likes to get airborne very quickly. I'm sure it would not be so when using water ballast but I haven't flown with ballast yet.

Landing:
Go to full negative flaps during roll out else aileron authority degrades very rapidly. I almost ground looped once because I forgot to use negative flaps during roll out and there was a light tail wind.
Don't forget to use landing flaps - they add a significant amount of drag and lift compared with +6 degrees. I landed with approach flaps once (+4 degrees) and I ended up using about 450 meters of runway before I came to a stop - lots of energy to dissipate.

Aerotow:
She's slippery so it's quite easy to get slack in the tow rope in turbulent air even in low tow position with +6 degrees flap. Be ready to use the airbrakes to prevent rope slack.
  #29  
Old January 1st 21, 01:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Piotr Mis
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Posts: 9
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

piÄ…tek, 1 stycznia 2021 oÂ*09:11:18 UTC+1 Surge napisaÅ‚(a):
On Tuesday, 29 December 2020 at 22:07:01 UTC+2, wrote:
Hi Surge
I would be happy to learn how you find your decision of buying that Nimbus 5 years ago from the perspective of those 5 years. Do you still own it? I am curious because I am now facing the same dilemma of low time pilot going for Nimbus 2. If you are somewhere out there I would be glad to hear from you:

Hi piotrm
I still own the Nimbus 2 although I haven't flown it that much due to life and work getting in the way. I'm still happy with the glider. My cautions would mainly be around ground handling and aerotow (I haven't winched it yet). I provided a general update in 2018 if you missed it. You're welcome to ask me specific questions otherwise.
What I would add is:

Rigging:
Try to keep it hangared if possible - I would not recommend rigging it every weekend unless you're young and fit and have time on your hands. I keep mine hangared with the tips off (GA size T hangar) but even that is a bit of a pain since I'm quite particular regarding cleaning and re-greasing all the pins, sockets and L'Hotellier aileron connections at the tip mounting point every time I fly it. These parts are exposed to dirt every time the wing tips are removed. However it is not a difficult chore and I do everything myself using a DIY one man, wing rigger. Total time to rig, clean, DI and tow to the launch point is about 2 hours. Cleaning and rigging the wing tips takes me about an hour.

Take off:
Make sure you start the take off role with full negative flaps to obtain aileron authority early.
When flying empty be ready for the glider to leap off the deck when shifting gently to +4 degrees flaps. Even with trim almost fully forward and my CofG fore of centre, she likes to get airborne very quickly. I'm sure it would not be so when using water ballast but I haven't flown with ballast yet..

Landing:
Go to full negative flaps during roll out else aileron authority degrades very rapidly. I almost ground looped once because I forgot to use negative flaps during roll out and there was a light tail wind.
Don't forget to use landing flaps - they add a significant amount of drag and lift compared with +6 degrees. I landed with approach flaps once (+4 degrees) and I ended up using about 450 meters of runway before I came to a stop - lots of energy to dissipate.

Aerotow:
She's slippery so it's quite easy to get slack in the tow rope in turbulent air even in low tow position with +6 degrees flap. Be ready to use the airbrakes to prevent rope slack.


Hi Surge
thanks for your reply I really apprecite it as I am getting closer and closer to making a final decision about the purchase. I am glad to see that you do not regret your decision, still enjoy the glider and in general I find your words quite reasurring. I am also relieved to see that you did not experience any particularly dangerous situation (except that near ground loop landing maybe). My ultimate aim is exactly the same as you descrbied it starting this thread: medium distance relaxed cross conutry 300-500 km rather than blasting around 200 km/h and fighting in competitions. As for the storage I am also planning to keep her in a hangar, so handling issue should not be much of a problem. Some dust covers are included in the package and that may help to protect pins and sockets from the dirt.

Perhaps one of my biggest concerns are outlandings. Since I am inexperienced (70 hours on gliders, 100 hours on powered planes) I am not planning oulandings any time soon and I guess having 3 airfields almost within the distance of Nimbus2 49 L/D I don't run much risk of a casulal landing. Even if I happend to have one, the area of Poland where I live is covered with large, smooth fields.
Is landing roll really significantly longer than a "regular" club 15-meter like Astir for example? (assuming that landing procedure is executed fawlessly)
Have you ever tried to use tail parachute on landing?

Did you find anything worth emphasizing about handling the ship during the thermalling/cruise?

From other advice on Nimbus 2 which I got I assume that challenges of flying a glider of this kind are lying more in mental areas (concentration/focus/discipline) rather than area of pure flying technique. I guess my experience of PPL pilot may help here (flaps adjustments, engine rpm adjusments on landings/take-offs etc).
Do you know any place where I could find Nimbus 2 pilot operating handbook? I was trying to find in the internet but the best what I found was Mini Nimbus POH.

best regards
Piotr


  #30  
Old January 1st 21, 08:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Posts: 1,350
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Friday, January 1, 2021 at 4:43:40 AM UTC-8, wrote:
piątek, 1 stycznia 2021 o 09:11:18 UTC+1 Surge napisał(a):
On Tuesday, 29 December 2020 at 22:07:01 UTC+2, wrote:
Hi Surge
I would be happy to learn how you find your decision of buying that Nimbus 5 years ago from the perspective of those 5 years. Do you still own it? I am curious because I am now facing the same dilemma of low time pilot going for Nimbus 2. If you are somewhere out there I would be glad to hear from you:

Hi piotrm
I still own the Nimbus 2 although I haven't flown it that much due to life and work getting in the way. I'm still happy with the glider. My cautions would mainly be around ground handling and aerotow (I haven't winched it yet). I provided a general update in 2018 if you missed it. You're welcome to ask me specific questions otherwise.
What I would add is:

Rigging:
Try to keep it hangared if possible - I would not recommend rigging it every weekend unless you're young and fit and have time on your hands. I keep mine hangared with the tips off (GA size T hangar) but even that is a bit of a pain since I'm quite particular regarding cleaning and re-greasing all the pins, sockets and L'Hotellier aileron connections at the tip mounting point every time I fly it. These parts are exposed to dirt every time the wing tips are removed. However it is not a difficult chore and I do everything myself using a DIY one man, wing rigger. Total time to rig, clean, DI and tow to the launch point is about 2 hours. Cleaning and rigging the wing tips takes me about an hour.

Take off:
Make sure you start the take off role with full negative flaps to obtain aileron authority early.
When flying empty be ready for the glider to leap off the deck when shifting gently to +4 degrees flaps. Even with trim almost fully forward and my CofG fore of centre, she likes to get airborne very quickly. I'm sure it would not be so when using water ballast but I haven't flown with ballast yet.

Landing:
Go to full negative flaps during roll out else aileron authority degrades very rapidly. I almost ground looped once because I forgot to use negative flaps during roll out and there was a light tail wind.
Don't forget to use landing flaps - they add a significant amount of drag and lift compared with +6 degrees. I landed with approach flaps once (+4 degrees) and I ended up using about 450 meters of runway before I came to a stop - lots of energy to dissipate.

Aerotow:
She's slippery so it's quite easy to get slack in the tow rope in turbulent air even in low tow position with +6 degrees flap. Be ready to use the airbrakes to prevent rope slack.

Hi Surge
thanks for your reply I really apprecite it as I am getting closer and closer to making a final decision about the purchase. I am glad to see that you do not regret your decision, still enjoy the glider and in general I find your words quite reasurring. I am also relieved to see that you did not experience any particularly dangerous situation (except that near ground loop landing maybe). My ultimate aim is exactly the same as you descrbied it starting this thread: medium distance relaxed cross conutry 300-500 km rather than blasting around 200 km/h and fighting in competitions. As for the storage I am also planning to keep her in a hangar, so handling issue should not be much of a problem. Some dust covers are included in the package and that may help to protect pins and sockets from the dirt.

Perhaps one of my biggest concerns are outlandings. Since I am inexperienced (70 hours on gliders, 100 hours on powered planes) I am not planning oulandings any time soon and I guess having 3 airfields almost within the distance of Nimbus2 49 L/D I don't run much risk of a casulal landing. Even if I happend to have one, the area of Poland where I live is covered with large, smooth fields.
Is landing roll really significantly longer than a "regular" club 15-meter like Astir for example? (assuming that landing procedure is executed fawlessly)
Have you ever tried to use tail parachute on landing?

Did you find anything worth emphasizing about handling the ship during the thermalling/cruise?

From other advice on Nimbus 2 which I got I assume that challenges of flying a glider of this kind are lying more in mental areas (concentration/focus/discipline) rather than area of pure flying technique. I guess my experience of PPL pilot may help here (flaps adjustments, engine rpm adjusments on landings/take-offs etc).
Do you know any place where I could find Nimbus 2 pilot operating handbook? I was trying to find in the internet but the best what I found was Mini Nimbus POH.

best regards
Piotr


Hi Piotr,

Considering your experience and budget I recommend that you get an ASW19 or a Standard Cirrus. Landing the N2C under normal circumstances is a handful - an outlanding multiplies all of those issues.

Tom
 




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