Refuting blackbird folklore

In article ,
redc1c4 wrote:

Chad Irby wrote:

The newer ones, like the "big" SA-20, might be able to do it, but it
would still be a fairly tough targeting solution - you'd need to loft
one up before the SR-71 was in range, then acquire it while in midair.

at which point in time, couldn't the 71 see it coming, and maneuver
to make the geometry as bad as for the others?

At those speeds and heights, it's like trying to skeet shoot cannonballs
from behind after you see the flash from the cannon.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 04:24:22 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

(robert arndt) wrote:

Funny how the all-white Mach 3 XB-70 seemed to hold up to kinetic
heating all right... and that was just simple nuclear anti-flash
white.

They did that by using a fairly scary system of pipes that ran through
high-heat areas, and used the plane's fuel as a heat sink, combined with
extensive use of titanium in the worst spots.

Not to mention the 4000 gallon tank of water. (It might have been 4000
pounds not gallons but I'm fairly certain it was gallons. They also
had an additional tank with ammonia just in case the water ran out)




In a combat-ready version, you can safely assume that they would have
used the "iron ball" black paint for radar reduction and heat protection.

Chad Irby wrote in message . com...
(robert arndt) wrote:

Funny how the all-white Mach 3 XB-70 seemed to hold up to kinetic
heating all right... and that was just simple nuclear anti-flash
white.

They did that by using a fairly scary system of pipes that ran through
high-heat areas, and used the plane's fuel as a heat sink, combined with
extensive use of titanium in the worst spots.

In a combat-ready version, you can safely assume that they would have
used the "iron ball" black paint for radar reduction and heat protection.

"Iron Ball" black paint was derived from the Third Reich's
radar-absorbing "Schornsteinfeger" (Chimney Sweep) carbon paint meant
for the Go-229 jet flying wing.

Rob

In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

"Iron Ball" black paint was derived from the Third Reich's
radar-absorbing "Schornsteinfeger" (Chimney Sweep) carbon paint meant
for the Go-229 jet flying wing.

Please lose this silly delusion that every aircraft advance in the last
60 years came from the Nazis. It's just plain silly.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Can someone confirm or deny the design "flaw/feature/consequence" of
the SR71/A12leaking fuel tanks? I have heard stories which varied
from this being a feature (to allow for expansion of the fuel tank
structure due to aerodynamic heating) to a design flaw which was never
fixed to a known consequence of aerodynamic heating which was never
resolved with the high temperature sealants available at the time.

I just cannot believe that Kelly Johnson's team would allow such a
flaw to exist in their design. I would rather believe that the Skunk
Works team knew that aerodynamic heating would seal the tanks and so
did relatively nothing to resolve the fuel leakage on the ground
issue.


Scott Ferrin wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 04:24:22 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

(robert arndt) wrote:

Funny how the all-white Mach 3 XB-70 seemed to hold up to kinetic
heating all right... and that was just simple nuclear anti-flash
white.

They did that by using a fairly scary system of pipes that ran through
high-heat areas, and used the plane's fuel as a heat sink, combined with
extensive use of titanium in the worst spots.

Not to mention the 4000 gallon tank of water. (It might have been 4000
pounds not gallons but I'm fairly certain it was gallons. They also
had an additional tank with ammonia just in case the water ran out)




In a combat-ready version, you can safely assume that they would have
used the "iron ball" black paint for radar reduction and heat protection.

On 1 Dec 2003 11:27:25 -0800, (Jens Peter) wrote:

Can someone confirm or deny the design "flaw/feature/consequence" of
the SR71/A12leaking fuel tanks? I have heard stories which varied
from this being a feature (to allow for expansion of the fuel tank
structure due to aerodynamic heating) to a design flaw which was never
fixed to a known consequence of aerodynamic heating which was never
resolved with the high temperature sealants available at the time.

I just cannot believe that Kelly Johnson's team would allow such a
flaw to exist in their design. I would rather believe that the Skunk
Works team knew that aerodynamic heating would seal the tanks and so
did relatively nothing to resolve the fuel leakage on the ground
issue.


Both of your reasons apply. They couldn't come up with a sealant and
since the expansion sealed them they pretty much said "screw it" and
decided to live with it.

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:46:31 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

"Iron Ball" black paint was derived from the Third Reich's
radar-absorbing "Schornsteinfeger" (Chimney Sweep) carbon paint meant
for the Go-229 jet flying wing.

Please lose this silly delusion that every aircraft advance in the last
60 years came from the Nazis. It's just plain silly.


I seem to recall that "paint" being more like BBs in a sheet of
rubber.

(robert arndt) wrote in message . com...
Chad Irby wrote in message . com...
(robert arndt) wrote:

Funny how the all-white Mach 3 XB-70 seemed to hold up to kinetic
heating all right... and that was just simple nuclear anti-flash
white.

They did that by using a fairly scary system of pipes that ran through
high-heat areas, and used the plane's fuel as a heat sink, combined with
extensive use of titanium in the worst spots.

In a combat-ready version, you can safely assume that they would have
used the "iron ball" black paint for radar reduction and heat protection.

"Iron Ball" black paint was derived from the Third Reich's
radar-absorbing "Schornsteinfeger" (Chimney Sweep) carbon paint meant
for the Go-229 jet flying wing.

Rob


Geeze, you probably think the integrated circuit and microprocessor
were both derived from Nazi research, huh? What is it with this
Pavlovian reaction you demonstrate to all things (allegedly) Germanic?

Brooks

Scott Ferrin wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 04:24:22 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

(robert arndt) wrote:

Funny how the all-white Mach 3 XB-70 seemed to hold up to kinetic
heating all right... and that was just simple nuclear anti-flash
white.

They did that by using a fairly scary system of pipes that ran through
high-heat areas, and used the plane's fuel as a heat sink, combined with
extensive use of titanium in the worst spots.

Not to mention the 4000 gallon tank of water. (It might have been 4000
pounds not gallons but I'm fairly certain it was gallons. They also
had an additional tank with ammonia just in case the water ran out)

32,000 pounds of water sounds quite a bit excessive.

Brooks





In a combat-ready version, you can safely assume that they would have
used the "iron ball" black paint for radar reduction and heat protection.

"redc1c4" wrote in message
...
Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
"Brian" wrote:
What height invulnerability? It worked in the 60's but in todays
environment, there are quite a few missiles that could reach out and
touch
the SR-71.

Well, there's "reach," then there's "reach with a decent chance of
hitting it."

The problem is that the few missiles with the height (80,000 feet plus)
didn't have enough targeting capability to hit the Blackbird at that
height, especially in a stern chase. The best they could do would be to
loft one up and try to get in the way.

Maybe back in the 60's, but today's modern missiles shouldn't have that
tough of a time with it. The Navy has been dealing with hi-alt hi-speed
targets for a while (AS4/6, SS-N-12, SS-N-19) and practices with Vandals
(hi-speed hi-alt). If an enemy SR-71(ok, imagine we sold one to some rogue
nation), came cruising near an Aegis or NTU(ER) ship it would stand a good
chance of becoming fish food(nothing is 100%). The SA-12 and SA-20 are
downright nasty missiles as well

The newer ones, like the "big" SA-20, might be able to do it, but it
would still be a fairly tough targeting solution - you'd need to loft
one up before the SR-71 was in range, then acquire it while in midair.

Missiles like the SA-12/20 and SM-2 have incredibly high speeds and
altitudes.....the SR-71 is not in a favorable position being up in the sky
with no clutter around. If it could reach M3.2 on the deck, there would be
more problems with targeting.

at which point in time, couldn't the 71 see it coming, and maneuver
to make the geometry as bad as for the others?

Sure, but then the 71 misses it's intended track and gets no intel.