Seniors USA 2009 Start and Finish notes..... # 711 reporting

What has worked for me is to crank DOWN my altimeter 125' at the
beginning of final glide along with closing the airvents (noise),
turning on the seat belt sign, and battening down the hatches. I'll be
damned if I don't see the altimeter on field elevation at the stops.
R

On Mar 17, 3:45*pm, hretting wrote:
What has worked for me is to crank DOWN my altimeter 125' at the
beginning of final glide along with closing the airvents (noise),
turning on the seat belt sign, and battening down the hatches. I'll be
damned if I don't see the altimeter on field elevation at the stops.
R

Am I the only one wondering why not just get a current altimeter
setting from a local AWOS or such? I suppose there are contest sites
so remote there are none.

Why do that Bubba when I just gave you a simpler way. In 25 contests ,
it has never failed. We're not talking take-off in Miami and landing
in Anchorage.
R

Maybe I'm missing something, but the I believe Tom (and the CD at the
Seniors) are mistaken in regard to any altimeter error due to ram air static
pressure. The faster the speed the higher the pressure in the cockpit and
thus the lower the reading on the altimeter. In other words as you go faster
you get a "safety" factor on the altimeter and should finish a couple feet
higher than indicated.

As to the comments on the danger of collisions at the finish, they are worth
attention. A few years ago at the Seniors I was close to the finish in a
DG-1000 when another glider overtook us and flew directly over our canopy
about 30 feet up. Had I eased off the airspeed just a little.... I don't
want to think about it. Incidentally, the owner, worth billions (invented
Netscape) was in the back seat and any resulting legal action might have
been nasty.

Karl Striedieck


wrote in message
...
What we saw on the new start at the Seniors was in simple
words....works great, will be good for along time. Just a note you
might want to remember. When you leave threw the top, make sure your
flown distance agrees with the distance given you by the scorer. Most
of us found a good thermal, dropped down into the cylinder for our 2
minutes below MSH and then thermaled up in the thermal, staying below
cloud base and left on course.

On the finish. Now, this is for you, Joe the sailplane racers, you
need to slow down before crossing into the finish cylinder at the
minium finish height. Your altimeter will read wrong at the end of the
day and your logger will lag when you cross into the cylinder. We saw
alot of finish penalities of 10 to 30 points because some guys were
coming in at 130 KTS and crossing into the clyinder at what their
altimeter said. Well, we all were warned its best to slow down before
crossing into the cylinder at least 10 seconds before you get their
and don't count on your altimeter to read correctly at the end of the
day. You will lose the fight with the scorer as he uses your logger
and what it reads as your altitude when you finish. He DOESN'T see
your cockpit altimeter when you finish.

That about covers the new start and finish. We had limited internet
coverage here at the Seniors and posting news and information was not
easy. I did try and post the last day information, but I couldn't get
service. My next stop is Perry and hopefully will be able to update my
blog with daily news.

Also, for those who race sports class, new 2009 handicaps need to be
checked. Its best to take your given handicap speed and divide by the
raw speed on your score sheet to see if your handicap is correct. It
might be a tad off because of the weight adjustment, but if its alot
off, either way, bring it to the attention of the scorer. This may be
best by writing down your case as then it will be addressed.

Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe. #711 reporting.

On Mar 18, 8:04�am, "Karl Striedieck" wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something, but the I believe Tom (and the CD at the
Seniors) are mistaken in regard to any altimeter error due to ram air static
pressure. The faster the speed the higher the pressure in the cockpit and
thus the lower the reading on the altimeter. In other words as you go faster
you get a "safety" factor on the altimeter and should finish a couple feet
higher than indicated.

As to the comments on the danger of collisions at the finish, they are worth
attention. A few years ago at the Seniors I was close to the finish in a
DG-1000 when another glider overtook us and flew directly over our canopy
about 30 feet up. Had I eased off the airspeed just a little.... I don't
want to think about it. Incidentally, the owner, worth billions (invented
Netscape) was in the back seat and any resulting legal action might have
been nasty.

Karl Striedieck

wrote in message

...



What we saw on the new start at the Seniors was in simple
words....works great, will be good for along time. Just a note you
might want to remember. When you leave threw the top, make sure your
flown distance agrees with the distance given you by the scorer. Most
of us found a good thermal, dropped down into the cylinder for our 2
minutes below MSH and then thermaled up in the thermal, staying below
cloud base and left on course.

On the finish. Now, this is for you, Joe the sailplane racers, you
need to slow down before crossing into the finish cylinder at the
minium finish height. Your altimeter will read wrong at the end of the
day and your logger will lag when you cross into the cylinder. We saw
alot of finish penalities of 10 to 30 points because some guys were
coming in at 130 KTS and crossing into the clyinder at what their
altimeter said. Well, we all were warned its best to slow down before
crossing into the cylinder at least 10 seconds before you get their
and don't count on your altimeter to read correctly at the end of the
day. You will lose the fight with the scorer as he uses your logger
and what it reads as your altitude when you finish. He DOESN'T see
your cockpit altimeter when you finish.

That about covers the new start and finish. We had limited internet
coverage here at the Seniors and posting news and information was not
easy. I did try and post the last day information, but I couldn't get
service. My next stop is Perry and hopefully will be able to update my
blog with daily news.

Also, for those who race sports class, new 2009 handicaps need to be
checked. Its best to take your given handicap speed and divide by the
raw speed on your score sheet to see if your handicap is correct. It
might be a tad off because of the weight adjustment, but if its alot
off, either way, bring it to the attention of the scorer. This may be
best by writing down your case as then it will be addressed.

Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe. #711 reporting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, I was quoting the CD, and when I think about it, Karl's right, my
bad. When flying from a low to a high, the altimeter reads low and
your higher than you altimeter shows. When flying from a high to a
low, the altimeter reads high and your lower than shown...old saying
is high to low, look out below.

I do think almost all altimeters are hooked up to the glider static
anyway, so really, vent air shouldn't even come into play.

Our glider altimeters just don't offer the precession (non electric
and non viabrating and we don't have radar altimeters ...yet.) to cut
the finish height so close.

Its easier to judge the 50 foot height when using a finish line and
yes, more fun. But , with the finish circle and finish height, you
need to be on the safe side, as if you get a finish penalty, its their
on your logger and won't get removed.

On Mar 17, 2:45*pm, hretting wrote:
What has worked for me is to crank DOWN my altimeter 125' at the
beginning of final glide along with closing the airvents (noise),
turning on the seat belt sign, and battening down the hatches. I'll be
damned if I don't see the altimeter on field elevation at the stops.
R

That's consistent with my observations. If I don't have a local
altimeter setting I reduce my altimeter my 100ft at start of final
glide.

This gives a conservative final glide but those that don't do that
have a hundred foot advantage over us at the finish since they will be
scored based on the takeoff altimeter setting.

Andy

On Mar 17, 2:53*pm, bildan wrote:
Am I the only one wondering why not just get a current altimeter
setting from a local AWOS or such? *I suppose there are contest sites
so remote there are none.

This only works of course if the altimeter calibration is accurate. I
suspect that most glider pilots set field elavation on takeoff and do
not not check that the baro setting matches the local altimeter
setting. If there is an offset then that same offset has to be
applied before using a local altimeter setting for final glide.

I became aware that my Winter altimeter setting was not accurate when
I saw large discrepancies between the settings of the Winter and my
302. I had to have my Winter rebuilt to fix the problem.

The 100ft offset method works even if the altimeter calibration is
horribly wrong.

Andy

On Mar 18, 5:04*am, "Karl Striedieck" wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something, but the I believe Tom (and the CD at the
Seniors) are mistaken in regard to any altimeter error due to ram air static
pressure. The faster the speed the higher the pressure in the cockpit and
thus the lower the reading on the altimeter. In other words as you go faster
you get a "safety" factor on the altimeter and should finish a couple feet
higher than indicated.

If it is true that cockpit pressure increases with speed then, at high
speed, loggers with no external static connection will read lower that
an altimeter which has an external static connection. This may result
in the logger showing a finish below gate altitude while the altimeter
indicated a safe margin above.

Anyone know for sure that cockpit pressure does actually increase at
high speed?

Andy

On Mar 18, 6:43*am, Andy wrote:
On Mar 18, 5:04*am, "Karl Striedieck" wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but the I believe Tom (and the CD at the
Seniors) are mistaken in regard to any altimeter error due to ram air static
pressure. The faster the speed the higher the pressure in the cockpit and
thus the lower the reading on the altimeter. In other words as you go faster
you get a "safety" factor on the altimeter and should finish a couple feet
higher than indicated.

If it is true that cockpit pressure increases with speed then, at high
speed, loggers with no external static connection will read lower that
an altimeter which has an external static connection. *This may result
in the logger showing a finish below gate altitude while the altimeter
indicated a safe margin above.

Anyone know for sure that cockpit pressure does actually increase at
high speed?

Andy

Well at least on some gliders you have the air holes in in the luggage
shelf blocked (all it takes is a jacket or similar jammed in there)
and open the front vent you can feel the pressure increase.

It is my impression that many piltos with built in loggers like the
Cambridge 302 do not understand that the flight recorder is using
cockpit ambient pressure and not the static line-in on the rear of the
instrument (only used for airspeed calculations). This is a
requirement to prevent the pilot being able to connect to the static
line and tamperer with logged pressure altitude.

Darryl

On Mar 18, 7:00*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Mar 18, 6:43*am, Andy wrote:



On Mar 18, 5:04*am, "Karl Striedieck" wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but the I believe Tom (and the CD at the
Seniors) are mistaken in regard to any altimeter error due to ram air static
pressure. The faster the speed the higher the pressure in the cockpit and
thus the lower the reading on the altimeter. In other words as you go faster
you get a "safety" factor on the altimeter and should finish a couple feet
higher than indicated.

If it is true that cockpit pressure increases with speed then, at high
speed, loggers with no external static connection will read lower that
an altimeter which has an external static connection. *This may result
in the logger showing a finish below gate altitude while the altimeter
indicated a safe margin above.

Anyone know for sure that cockpit pressure does actually increase at
high speed?

Andy

Well at least on some gliders you have the air holes in in the luggage
shelf blocked (all it takes is a jacket or similar jammed in there)
and open the front vent you can feel the pressure increase.

It is my impression that many piltos with built in loggers like the
Cambridge 302 do not understand that the flight recorder is using
cockpit ambient pressure and not the static line-in on the rear of the
instrument (only used for airspeed calculations). This is a
requirement to prevent the pilot being able to connect to the static
line and tamperer with logged pressure altitude.

Darryl

Oh and this explains the warnings from knowledgeable CDs. Increased
cockpit ambient pressure, the logger will read record lower, while
your altimeter will say you are OK. And as mentioned, since you are
descending any lag or stickiness in the altimeter will also err to the
pilot's disadvantage.

Darryl